When can we blame Cam?

[carolina-chuck]

2 years in....he has generated more offense than anyone in NFL history.....

Nothing about Newton suggests he is a game manager at best.

I think he will be great, but if you wanted to be pessimistic you would be more accurate to say he at best is a big play machine.

 

Can we quit talking about these worthless stats? I dont care if Cam had the best two seasons for any QB in the league. The game have evolved from a running league into a passing league. QBs these days are going to throw for 3000+ yards if played an entire 16 gms season.

 

Even Josh Freeman threw for 4k last season. Freeman threw for 12,963 yards in his first four seasons. Does that make him better than Troy Aikman's first four season: 10,527 yards?

 

[FootballMaestro]

Russell: 115.7 rating

 

Tell me who had the better defense out there for 3 quarters? Yea, we did.

 

And how many time was Wilson bailed out by spectacular catches off his bad throws, and awful coverage by the Panther D. 

 

The Panther D (no matter how they play up until that point) always finds a way to blow the game during key plays late in the third or 4th qtr. It's a habit. 

 

But my guess is (though you'll deny it), you never liked Newton in the first place or wanted him here?

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

see you in April? People always bang on the offseason but It's the best time to be on the huddle.

 

i mean, it's somewhat boring and unless you're a draftnik it can be slow

 

but the amount of stupid hit and run posting and complete poo thread-making is substantially lower.

[Swaggasaurus]

haha i like the progression that exchange took.

 

person 1:  "cam is a game manager with a stronger arm!"

 

person 2: "game managers aren't known for scoring as much as cam has"  *posts stats*

 

person 1: I DONT CARE ABOUT STats just wins!1

 

priceless

I have no idea what you are talking about. Is Cam winner? Can he win you a game? Game managers don't win you games, neither does Cam.

[Dash Global]

What do you mean by clutch?

 

Leading us from behind late. 

 

Making big plays late to secure / hold on to a lead. 

 

etc. 

[CelibatePimpv2.0]

Can we quit talking about these worthless stats? I dont care if Cam had the best two seasons for any QB in the league. The game have evolved from a running league into a passing league. QBs these days are going to throw for 3000+ yards if played an entire 16 gms season.

 

Even Josh Freeman threw for 4k last season. Freeman threw for 12,963 yards in his first four seasons. Does that make him better than Troy Aikman's first four season: 10,527 yards?

 

 

So what do you want to judge him by?

[FootballMaestro]

Clutch means doing it when it counts, 4th down, 4th quarter, down 6. Can he make the throw? can he get a first?

 

Cam has done that many times in his NFL career late in 4th quarters, only to have his defense comeback and blow the game. 

 

You can't get credit for a come from behind victory, when your defense can't hold on for said victory. 

 

That's the Ron Rivera curse, I guess?

[Swaggasaurus]

Which is fine....

And like I said, if you want to downgrade him to "at best"....I think you should alter your box you put him in. Game manager isn't Newton. An inconsistent big play machine is way more accurate IMO....and his play, production, and stats back it.

I can agree with that description.

[pantherj]

Williams knows he cost us the game. Williams blames himself for the loss and he's right. He doesn't fumble and we win imo.

 

Last season against Seattle both Williams and Stewart fumbled on back to back possessions. They watched one another be stripped, and yet were still careless with the ball. They were lectured after the game about covering up the football, and being especially wary against Seattle, a team noted for causing fumbles. Move forward to this season. The Panthers coaching staff shows Williams tape of Seattle defensive players stripping the ball, and make every effort to warn Williams to be careful with football and to remember what happened last season. Williams fumbles the football and causes our loss.

 

Cam had a fine game against a team with a strong defense.

 

 

 

 

[carolina-chuck]

And that's ok. Cam isn't Brees. He's a Favre. Gunslingers can win too. We just need stronger coaching and a reliable weapon outside Smitty.

 

Nor is Cam Brett Favre. One person say he's Favre and before you know it the whole huddle says he's Favre. Cam doesnt remind me anything of Favre from a QB standpoint.

[teeray]

Cam has actually brought us back several times in the last few years. But then we have defensive breakdowns in clutch situations.

I have posted before about other teams (specifically the Colts) who held leads with 3:00 minutes or more to go in the 4th. Something our defense did not do, especially last year

[Swaggasaurus]

Nor is Cam Brett Favre. One person say he's Favre and before you know it the whole huddle says he's Favre. Cam doesnt remind me anything of Favre from a QB standpoint.

He do like to throw to the other time in crunch time...he do

[K-Hawk]

I am probably going to get a good amount of bashing with this post and some may even go as far as to say that I don't deserve a QB like Cam. But, my question is this:

 

When can we start putting the blame on Cam for holding our offense back? Putting the blame on Cam rather than on the lack of Oline, WRs, running game, and play calling? This is a serious question.

 

Some guys just have that clutch-ness in them, and in my honest opinion I just don't see it in Cam as of right now. We saw it in Wilson today. The man was pressured all day long and was hit on many different occasions. Wilson still managed to find the way to lead his team in a comeback victory against us in the 4th quarter.

 

We can defend Cam in every way possible even to the max that he's not Peyton Manning. But nor is Russell, Kaep, or RG3 a Peyton Manning. Though, these guys are able to pick apart defenses when the time is there for the taking. Other than Cam’s two first rookie games vs. Arizona and Green Bay, I have not seen Cam’s ability to pick defenses apart.

 

In my honest opinion, Cam's lack of clutch-ness and ability to pick apart defenses is what's holding this team back. The game is win and loss by the Quarterback. That's how you differentiate the great from the good, and the good from the bad.

 

Wow. Really sorry for chipping in here, but your post SO reminds me of the Seahawks when Holmgren traded for Hasselbeck. At the time I said, literally, the combination of Holmgren and Hasselbeck would never win a Super Bowl. My thinking was based on a couple simple observations.

 

Holmgren was a system guy, basically a control freak. This was so extreme that Holmgren NEVER, in all his years in the NFL, changed how he coached. Not even a little. He was a system guy, not a personnel guy, so he could not adjust his coaching to his personnel, but always got the personnel to fit his system. That meant a lot of years that were mediocre.

 

This was exhibited when Holmgren shut down Jon kitna after he started out with one of the best first half of a season by a starter ever. He had ended the previous season, with Erickson, I think, something like 4-2 or some such. Then he was 6-2 in Holmgren's first season, but Holmgren was on his hind end to play WITHIN the system  rather than do what had won the team something like 10 of 16 games.

That was Holmy.

 

In later years, when Kitna got a chance to play on lesser teams in ... Cincy?.. and as a backup, he had GREAT stats, just as he had in Seattle. The point? It's not just the QB or just the coach, it's the nexus of the two.

 

To be honest, I knew jack-all about your team before this week, but your feedback and the research I've had to do to participate here and handicap the game have led me to believe you do not have the combo you need. When Kitna was paired with the coordinator he'd had under Erickson he kicked ass. The team was weak, but Kitna played great. I agree that you have to change your coaching...

 

You need someone here that Cam trusts implicitly. That does not mean he should dictate who the coach is, it means management needs to understand who they have and find a coach who "gets" Cam. Cam, on the other hand, has to be coachable. With strong wills and big egos, and really in any pairing, that comes down to trust.

What made Holmgren successful in GB? Favre. Not because Favre was actually a great QB, because he wasn't. What he had were certain attributes that were so outstanding they made up for his weaknesses much of the time, and enough of the time to get to two SBs and win one of them w/ GB.

 

Why did this pairing work? Because Holmgren needed one of two types of QB: Either one that was absolutely robotic enough to do exactly what Holmgren told him to do, or one that was smart enough to understand Holmgren's system, but maverick enough to break the rules as needed.

 

Favre did this perfectly, but Kitna was too emotional, too completely emotionally into it to be able to blow Holmgren off as needed, but stay cool enough to do what Holmgren said most of the time.

 

Look back at quotes from Holmy and Favre: the two battled. Kitna couldn't figure out that fine line and he was gone.

 

In Seattle today you have a GM, a HC and a QB who all think *exactly the same way.* It's all smileys all the time, and work your ass off every minute of every day, and not just at work, but everything you do.

 

It's not the specific philosophy that matters, it's the *match* that matters. Very much like what makes a marriage work.

 

Find a staff Cam trusts, and that trusts Cam, and the sky is the limit. Doesn't matter if they are on exactly the same page or opposites, per se - as we have seen, both work - only that they all get each other and agree to agree or disagree as appropriate.

 

Yeah, you all have convinced me you probably need a new staff. But I don't know Cam well enough. Maybe they can grow together?

 

Anywho, I feel your pain. I LOVED Kitna and respected Holmgren and died a little as I struggled watching Kitna not adjust to Holmgren and Holmgren roll over Kitna.

Hasselbeck? He was.... meh. Not enough like Farve nor enough like Kitna, so he stayed all those years with a coach who needed him to be Favre but liked him too much to jettison him like Kitna. This I knew the the first year with Hasselbeck. I watched the 2005 season stating *publicly* Holmy and Hass would never win the SB. Torture!!

 

Hope you get the coach you need for Cam to blossom. Or, that Cam is strong enough a man to figure out what Rivera needs him to be. Either way can work. The middle road never will.

Good luck.

[FootballMaestro]

Leading us from behind late. 

 

Making big plays late to secure / hold on to a lead. 

 

etc. 

 

Cam can't make the defense hold on to leads, he comes from behind from you know?

 

He's had several of those (or near perfect games), where the Panthers snatched victory away from him at the end of the game. 

 

It's a damn shame.