Greg Cosell critiques Cams throwing style

[emhoward]

I've seen more agreement in this thread than all others threads in the off season combined.

[MHS831]

I agree to expedite the improvement he needs an OL and a running game.   

 

I will trust Gettlemen.  He may not have had options, but I want to believe

[rayzor]

I took it as fair criticism until when the question of a #2 receiver came up and again Cam was blamed for it. He said in a nice way that Lafell is being held back by Cam. I call bullshit on so many levels. Ive seen to many passes hit Lafell's hands and fall to the ground. Criticize him fine, but don't imply Cam is what is holding this team back and speculate if he's good enough to be a long term option. Mark Sanchez went to how many conference championship games?

that's just the way you heard it. he was talking about placement...which is a problem for cam on short and intermediate throws, right? he has trouble hitting the mark on those throws. i consider that a given.

 

where is the majority of lafell's routes? are they long or are they medium or are they short?

 

if the majority of lafell's routes are short/medium range and cam has a problem hitting the mark at that range, does it not stand to reason that lafell would catch more balls thrown at him if they were being thrown by someone who is better at hitting those areas?

 

a WR looks better when he has someone that can put the ball in the right place. take a look at the saints receivers. what happens when they go elsewhere? they don't do well. why? because they really aren't as good as their production would have you believe. they have a guy throwing the ball that not only throws a ton, but has surgical strike precision. he used eric decker as an example. is there a difference in his production with manning as compared to what it was with The Golden Calf of Bristol? no doubt. why? because it's peyton frikkin manning throwing him the ball and there are few who have ever thrown the ball as well as him.

 

THAT is what i got from his comments. i didn't see it as cam holding lafell back. i saw it as common sense that if cam were better able to place the ball in the right spot at those areas he's not so good at yet, then the people he's throwing the ball to would look better, wouldn't they?

 

i've seen growth in cam every year as far as his craft is concerned. i knew he would be incredible, but i didn't know how good. i think he's absolutely good enough to have a team in the playoffs because...well, sanchez made it. it's obvious to anyone really looking that cam got better the last 6-8 games last year and it's also obvious that they would have won more had the defense not choked so frequently and rivera not been bad as a game manager and chud not poo the bed trying to get a HC job.

 

everyone on that team, including the coaches have to step up their game this year to quit being a team with unrealized potential. EVERYONE has to do it. but...cam is held to a higher standard and level of expectation for two reasons. 1) he's the QB and 2) he was the first pick overall. is that fair or correct? nope, but that's just the way it is. he has to step it up. the team needs him to. they need him to be a more complete QB and they need him to grow every year so that they can get better every year. they need him to help them reach their potential just like he needs a better performance from the players and coaches around him to help him reach his potential.

 

there is something that i saw in him at auburn that has been lacking his first couple years in carolina and that is something in his demeanor. he was the guy that got everyone fired up. when they were behind, he got that team turned around. he got them to play at a higher level. i haven't seen that from him in his first two years but i'm hopeful that i see that this year. i think that with him getting the official vote of confidence from his peers getting the C on his jersey that he will feel comfortable enough stepping up in that capacity more.

 

now as far as his thoughts that gettleman might not be completely sold...all he has to go on is gettleman's words (complete with person's spin) and knowledge that many GMs will bring in new coaches and with that new QBs. it's not unreasonable to think that if this team doesn't get into the playoffs in the next year or two that there may need to be a change in direction that may involve a new coaching staff or even new QB. now for me, i don't see it. but for those on the outside, it just makes sense. it might not be the best mix between team being built by the GM and the coaches and/or the QB. i can't see that happening here, but that's because i'm a homer and i think that gettleman is sold, but i can surely understand someone else not feeling that same way.

 

at any rate, i don't think it's nearly as negative as you thougt, but that's all perception. i'm not going to say i'm right and you're wrong. i'll just say i don't think it's as bad as you do.

 

[Mr. Scot]

that's just the way you heard it. he was talking about placement...which is a problem for cam on short and intermediate throws, right? he has trouble hitting the mark on those throws. i consider that a given.

 

where is the majority of lafell's routes? are they long or are they medium or are they short?

 

if the majority of lafell's routes are short/medium range and cam has a problem hitting the mark at that range, does it not stand to reason that lafell would catch more balls thrown at him if they were being thrown by someone who is better at hitting those areas?

 

a WR looks better when he has someone that can put the ball in the right place. take a look at the saints receivers. what happens when they go elsewhere? they don't do well. why? because they really aren't as good as their production would have you believe. they have a guy throwing the ball that not only throws a ton, but has surgical strike precision. he used eric decker as an example. is there a difference in his production with manning as compared to what it was with The Golden Calf of Bristol? no doubt. why? because it's peyton frikkin manning throwing him the ball and there are few who have ever thrown the ball as well as him.

 

THAT is what i got from his comments. i didn't see it as cam holding lafell back. i saw it as common sense that if cam were better able to place the ball in the right spot at those areas he's not so good at yet, then the people he's throwing the ball to would look better, wouldn't they?

 

i've seen growth in cam every year as far as his craft is concerned. i knew he would be incredible, but i didn't know how good. i think he's absolutely good enough to have a team in the playoffs because...well, sanchez made it. it's obvious to anyone really looking that cam got better the last 6-8 games last year and it's also obvious that they would have won more had the defense not choked so frequently and rivera not been bad as a game manager and chud not poo the bed trying to get a HC job.

 

everyone on that team, including the coaches have to step up their game this year to quit being a team with unrealized potential. EVERYONE has to do it. but...cam is held to a higher standard and level of expectation for two reasons. 1) he's the QB and 2) he was the first pick overall. is that fair or correct? nope, but that's just the way it is. he has to step it up. the team needs him to. they need him to be a more complete QB and they need him to grow every year so that they can get better every year. they need him to help them reach their potential just like he needs a better performance from the players and coaches around him to help him reach his potential.

 

there is something that i saw in him at auburn that has been lacking his first couple years in carolina and that is something in his demeanor. he was the guy that got everyone fired up. when they were behind, he got that team turned around. he got them to play at a higher level. i haven't seen that from him in his first two years but i'm hopeful that i see that this year. i think that with him getting the official vote of confidence from his peers getting the C on his jersey that he will feel comfortable enough stepping up in that capacity more.

 

now as far as his thoughts that gettleman might not be completely sold...all he has to go on is gettleman's words (complete with person's spin) and knowledge that many GMs will bring in new coaches and with that new QBs. it's not unreasonable to think that if this team doesn't get into the playoffs in the next year or two that there may need to be a change in direction that may involve a new coaching staff or even new QB. now for me, i don't see it. but for those on the outside, it just makes sense. it might not be the best mix between team being built by the GM and the coaches and/or the QB. i can't see that happening here, but that's because i'm a homer and i think that gettleman is sold, but i can surely understand someone else not feeling that same way.

 

at any rate, i don't think it's nearly as negative as you thougt, but that's all perception. i'm not going to say i'm right and you're wrong. i'll just say i don't think it's as bad as you do.

 

Pretty much.

 

Consistent ball placement has been an issue for Newton.  It's one of his biggest challenges this year.

 

As has been said, with the style of QB he is, as long as it's "catchable", I'm happy.  Doesn't have to be perfect.

 

[AceBoogie]

that's just the way you heard it. he was talking about placement...which is a problem for cam on short and intermediate throws, right? he has trouble hitting the mark on those throws. i consider that a given.

 

where is the majority of lafell's routes? are they long or are they medium or are they short?

 

if the majority of lafell's routes are short/medium range and cam has a problem hitting the mark at that range, does it not stand to reason that lafell would catch more balls thrown at him if they were being thrown by someone who is better at hitting those areas?

 

a WR looks better when he has someone that can put the ball in the right place. take a look at the saints receivers. what happens when they go elsewhere? they don't do well. why? because they really aren't as good as their production would have you believe. they have a guy throwing the ball that not only throws a ton, but has surgical strike precision. he used eric decker as an example. is there a difference in his production with manning as compared to what it was with The Golden Calf of Bristol? no doubt. why? because it's peyton frikkin manning throwing him the ball and there are few who have ever thrown the ball as well as him.

 

THAT is what i got from his comments. i didn't see it as cam holding lafell back. i saw it as common sense that if cam were better able to place the ball in the right spot at those areas he's not so good at yet, then the people he's throwing the ball to would look better, wouldn't they?

 

i've seen growth in cam every year as far as his craft is concerned. i knew he would be incredible, but i didn't know how good. i think he's absolutely good enough to have a team in the playoffs because...well, sanchez made it. it's obvious to anyone really looking that cam got better the last 6-8 games last year and it's also obvious that they would have won more had the defense not choked so frequently and rivera not been bad as a game manager and chud not poo the bed trying to get a HC job.

 

everyone on that team, including the coaches have to step up their game this year to quit being a team with unrealized potential. EVERYONE has to do it. but...cam is held to a higher standard and level of expectation for two reasons. 1) he's the QB and 2) he was the first pick overall. is that fair or correct? nope, but that's just the way it is. he has to step it up. the team needs him to. they need him to be a more complete QB and they need him to grow every year so that they can get better every year. they need him to help them reach their potential just like he needs a better performance from the players and coaches around him to help him reach his potential.

 

there is something that i saw in him at auburn that has been lacking his first couple years in carolina and that is something in his demeanor. he was the guy that got everyone fired up. when they were behind, he got that team turned around. he got them to play at a higher level. i haven't seen that from him in his first two years but i'm hopeful that i see that this year. i think that with him getting the official vote of confidence from his peers getting the C on his jersey that he will feel comfortable enough stepping up in that capacity more.

 

now as far as his thoughts that gettleman might not be completely sold...all he has to go on is gettleman's words (complete with person's spin) and knowledge that many GMs will bring in new coaches and with that new QBs. it's not unreasonable to think that if this team doesn't get into the playoffs in the next year or two that there may need to be a change in direction that may involve a new coaching staff or even new QB. now for me, i don't see it. but for those on the outside, it just makes sense. it might not be the best mix between team being built by the GM and the coaches and/or the QB. i can't see that happening here, but that's because i'm a homer and i think that gettleman is sold, but i can surely understand someone else not feeling that same way.

 

at any rate, i don't think it's nearly as negative as you thougt, but that's all perception. i'm not going to say i'm right and you're wrong. i'll just say i don't think it's as bad as you do.

The reason you don't see that same player has to with coaching in my opinion. Cam hints at it every year. The first year it was the whole lion in the cage or jungle or whatever, last year he spoke about scripts and directors and things needing to change. 

 

Everyone doesn't agree with me on it but this organization and this coaching staff excepts losing. Just competing seems to be ok with them. You see it in Rivera's lack of urgency and not going for the kill in games and playing it safe. Thats what frustrates Cam is that he hates to lose, he won't accept it like this organization and some of these players do. Thats why you don't see that fiery guy and thats why it's so hard for him to lead THIS team.

 

Imagine you've just lost a close game after you had your team up 11, you never come back on the field and you lose the game in over time. You have players and coaches coming up to you saying don't worry we'll get them next time, or we'll get it next week. You don't accept that failure thats not your mindset. It starts with the head coach. 

[Kurb]

What third year quarterback hasn't needed to improve in some aspect of his game?

I can't think of many.

We have forgotten our expectations for Can on draft day. He was picked knowing he was a very raw product. His hard work, film study, God given talent, and brains have given him 2 amazing seasons for someone with his his offensive background.

Most everything Cosell said about him is true. I believe he will continue to grow as a QB. I doubt he is ever Payton Manning accurate, but honestly he doesn't have to be. I stand by opinion he is the most offensively dangerous player in the NFL, and will cause greater and greater headaches for opponents as he continues to develop.

[TheRed]

I can't think of many.

We have forgotten our expectations for Can on draft day. He was picked knowing he was a very raw product. His hard work, film study, God given talent, and brains have given him 2 amazing seasons for someone with his his offensive background.

Most everything Cosell said about him is true. I believe he will continue to grow as a QB. I doubt he is ever Payton Manning accurate, but honestly he doesn't have to be. I stand by opinion he is the most offensively dangerous player in the NFL, and will cause greater and greater headaches for opponents as he continues to develop.

Sky is the limit. We must continue to surround him with talent on that side of the ball and put him in a position to succeed though. It all starts with coaching. We will find out this season if we have the right staff for the job.

[KendrickPanther]

I think there are two types of people when it comes to Cam. Those that like him and those that do not. It doesn't matter what he does some will point to his flaws. Others will defend him blindly. I choose a different path. I can be a big fan and still recognize he needs to improve.

 

When we drafted him I thought 5 years. However his rookie year blew expectations through the roof. There are some people that believe he will leave us in my 5 year window. Joe Flacco made the playoffs every season he's played in the NFL and he had to win the Super Bowl to get a new deal. People called him a bum, people still call him a bum. Cam on the other hand is a bum for losing pretty. The point is there will always be critics. Even if you win the Super Bowl they will call you a Trent Dilfer or a Brad Johnson. The important thing is to sift through the criticism and acknowledge what is fair and tangible, and what is farcical.

 

TLDR  It is ok to recognize weaknesses in Cam's game. There is no reason to rush to his defense if there are tangible reasons.

[TheRed]

There's a difference in recognizing his flaws versus simply waiting for a mistake just to say to I told you so.

The latter seems to be a common trend.

[rayzor]

The reason you don't see that same player has to with coaching in my opinion. Cam hints at it every year. The first year it was the whole lion in the cage or jungle or whatever, last year he spoke about scripts and directors and things needing to change. 

 

Everyone doesn't agree with me on it but this organization and this coaching staff excepts losing. Just competing seems to be ok with them. You see it in Rivera's lack of urgency and not going for the kill in games and playing it safe. Thats what frustrates Cam is that he hates to lose, he won't accept it like this organization and some of these players do. Thats why you don't see that fiery guy and thats why it's so hard for him to lead THIS team.

 

Imagine you've just lost a close game after you had your team up 11, you never come back on the field and you lose the game in over time. You have players and coaches coming up to you saying don't worry we'll get them next time, or we'll get it next week. You don't accept that failure thats not your mindset. It starts with the head coach. 

 

i'm not going to disagree with that at all. i will say i've seen some very positive things from statements that rivera has made to make me believe it's possible that has changed and i don't think that gettleman is cool with losing, either. he wants to make a good impression. he's been waiting a long time for this and i think he's hungry. i trust him as much as i do cam and keek.

[jarhead]

that's just the way you heard it. he was talking about placement...which is a problem for cam on short and intermediate throws, right? he has trouble hitting the mark on those throws. i consider that a given.

 

where is the majority of lafell's routes? are they long or are they medium or are they short?

 

if the majority of lafell's routes are short/medium range and cam has a problem hitting the mark at that range, does it not stand to reason that lafell would catch more balls thrown at him if they were being thrown by someone who is better at hitting those areas?

 

a WR looks better when he has someone that can put the ball in the right place. take a look at the saints receivers. what happens when they go elsewhere? they don't do well. why? because they really aren't as good as their production would have you believe. they have a guy throwing the ball that not only throws a ton, but has surgical strike precision. he used eric decker as an example. is there a difference in his production with manning as compared to what it was with The Golden Calf of Bristol? no doubt. why? because it's peyton frikkin manning throwing him the ball and there are few who have ever thrown the ball as well as him.

 

THAT is what i got from his comments. i didn't see it as cam holding lafell back. i saw it as common sense that if cam were better able to place the ball in the right spot at those areas he's not so good at yet, then the people he's throwing the ball to would look better, wouldn't they?

 

i've seen growth in cam every year as far as his craft is concerned. i knew he would be incredible, but i didn't know how good. i think he's absolutely good enough to have a team in the playoffs because...well, sanchez made it. it's obvious to anyone really looking that cam got better the last 6-8 games last year and it's also obvious that they would have won more had the defense not choked so frequently and rivera not been bad as a game manager and chud not poo the bed trying to get a HC job.

 

everyone on that team, including the coaches have to step up their game this year to quit being a team with unrealized potential. EVERYONE has to do it. but...cam is held to a higher standard and level of expectation for two reasons. 1) he's the QB and 2) he was the first pick overall. is that fair or correct? nope, but that's just the way it is. he has to step it up. the team needs him to. they need him to be a more complete QB and they need him to grow every year so that they can get better every year. they need him to help them reach their potential just like he needs a better performance from the players and coaches around him to help him reach his potential.

 

there is something that i saw in him at auburn that has been lacking his first couple years in carolina and that is something in his demeanor. he was the guy that got everyone fired up. when they were behind, he got that team turned around. he got them to play at a higher level. i haven't seen that from him in his first two years but i'm hopeful that i see that this year. i think that with him getting the official vote of confidence from his peers getting the C on his jersey that he will feel comfortable enough stepping up in that capacity more.

 

now as far as his thoughts that gettleman might not be completely sold...all he has to go on is gettleman's words (complete with person's spin) and knowledge that many GMs will bring in new coaches and with that new QBs. it's not unreasonable to think that if this team doesn't get into the playoffs in the next year or two that there may need to be a change in direction that may involve a new coaching staff or even new QB. now for me, i don't see it. but for those on the outside, it just makes sense. it might not be the best mix between team being built by the GM and the coaches and/or the QB. i can't see that happening here, but that's because i'm a homer and i think that gettleman is sold, but i can surely understand someone else not feeling that same way.

 

at any rate, i don't think it's nearly as negative as you thougt, but that's all perception. i'm not going to say i'm right and you're wrong. i'll just say i don't think it's as bad as you do.

Bravo! Nicely put

[Snake]

Cosell was never a fan of Newton coming out of collage from a film stand point. The same things he had to say on his twitter when Newton was at the combine is the same thing he said with Mac. But to be fair Cam has yet to improve his throwing motion. Still I doubt Luck is going to be a top 5 QB ether this year.

[Frizzy350]

Cosell was never a fan of Newton coming out of collage from a film stand point. The same things he had to say on his twitter when Newton was at the combine is the same thing he said with Mac. But to be fair Cam has yet to improve his throwing motion. Still I doubt Luck is going to be a top 5 QB ether this year.

 

To be fair Cam's improvement as an actual passer from the combine to his pro day was pretty absurd.

 

Cam does need to work on some things.  When he's given some time AND (most importantly) room to step up, he generally puts his entire body into his throws, and that's when his throws are the most accurate.  Despite Cam's running ability and athleticism, he isn't great at dumping it off on the money when on the run (unless it's an actual bootleg that moves his body in a way that fluidly transitions to a throw, see TD to Smith vs the Raiders last year).

 

Based on how hard Cam works and how well he progresses, I think he will hit that true elite passer level.  I don't think it is absolutely necessary for him to hit this level to be successful though.  Think of Brett Favre, that dude used to make absurdly boneheaded decisions and had plenty of inconsistencies in accuracy, but yet he was explosive and dangerous and is considered one of the greatest to play the game.

 

Only time will tell in the end I guess.  If your question is whether Cam could win us a superbowl though, just take a peak at Roeth and Flacco.  I believe Cam is infinitely more talented than either and already a better player.

[teeray]

I didn't see the video. I don't need to. I have seen every snap he has taken the last three years multiple times and did a poo ton of research on him leading up to the draft.

And before people immediately pummel me let me start off by saying that I am not saying Cam is perfect in his mechanics or that he doesn't have fundamentals he needs to improve on. He does.

But the #1 thing he needs to improve on is decision making. Both making better decisions and making quicker decisions. Improving those things will make him a better QB quicker than any of tbe mechanical stuff people talk about because overall he isactually pretty good mechanically. Especially when he plants and throws.

The other thing that will make him a lot is better movement within the pocket. Stepping up and sliding left and right within the pocket. He does a pretty good job stepping up, but it seems I have rarely seen him slide left or right. He almost always breaks out of the pocket instead and tries to make plays with his feet.

These are things that will come with experience. Other guys like Kaep, Wilson, Luck Dalton, RG3, etc were all 3/4 year starters in college. Cam had one year of major college football as a starter. I would argue that even though he has more NFL experience he is still behind those guys in QB experience and development.