What Seahawks fans are saying...

[Jackofalltrades]

Superb work bro!

[CatMan72]

You contradict yourself, you point out how much less experience Cam has and then suggest that Wilson works harder? 

 

Huh? Experience and work ethic are not the same in any way,

 

You suggested Wilson works harder than Cam while pointing out how much more NFL ready Wilson was, so any reasonable person could conclude that Cam has had to work harder than Wilson to get where he is at this point. Fact is, I don't know how hard either of them have worked and neither do you... but I gave some very specific examples of how hard Cam has worked to make the transition. 

 

Cam had to make the transition from a no-huddle spread option offense to the NFL without the benefit of a full offseason his rookie year and he won OROY in the process but there's a problem with his work ethic?

 

I did? Where? Copy and paste the specific quote. I drew a comparison. I did not say Cam was lazy, I said Wilson prepares more. Whether that means Wilson is a 10 and Cam a 5 or Wilson off the charts and Cam also off the charts, but not quite as far off as Wilson is not a distinction I have made. He's your QB: How satisfied are you?

 

Any way you want to parse it, you suggested Wilson has a better work ethic than Cam and I'd love to hear what you're basing that notion on since you seem so certain of it? 

 

Wilson meanwhile came from a pro-style offense, in-fact he got a chance to learn the WCO at Wisconsin before he was drafted to Seattle, so if anything Cam's success is evidence that he's had to work much harder than Wilson if we're going to make assumptions.

 

Nope. Not much difference between a lockout season and a three-way share of snaps. BTW, ALL QBs that year had to deal with that, not just Cam. And, as said elsewhere, Cam never had to fight for his job. Wilson could have come in and assumed he'd be the 2nd or 3rd QB, behind a 5M/yr QB, but he came in and took the starting job, never doubting he would. If you think being anointed is harder than having to go take a job from the 3rd string position, I'm going to have to disagree with you. And Wilson did that at Wisconsin and Seattle.

 

Want to call it equal? Fine by me. This is a very, very minor part of the analysis, regardless.

 

Not much difference between being handed a playbook and then locked out of the facilities and forbidden to communicate with the coaches vs. having full access to the facilities, coaching staff and OTA's, mini-camp, etc??? LOL!!! Cam had to prove himself worthy of the opening day job by his performance in training camp after having almost no access to the facilities or coaching staff and he had to do this as the # 1 overall pick on a 2-14 team with a historically bad offense while the whole world was praying for him to fail - no pressure there! 

 

I know what Wilson is as a QB and I respect him... based on your attempt to compare passer rating and completion % it's clear I have a better understanding of what Wilson is and what he's asked to do in your offense than you have of what Cam is and what he's asked to do in our offense.  

 

Perhaps. But completion % is a stat the QB has the most control over. When you read about Cam, his accuracy is stated as something he's needed to improve on. He's yet to break 60%. Wilson hit 64% in 2012. Are you going on record claiming Cam is as accurate as Wilson when he never has been, not in college, not in the pros? I have ALWAYS thought yards is the least important metric for QBs, offenses and defenses, so it's not just about this comparison.

 

Completion % is an important stat, but it MUST be viewed through the lense of what a QB is being asked to do. Like I said before, a decent WCO QB will always have a higher completion % just by virtue of the scheme, which is designed to minimize risk and maximize scoring opportunities by getting the ball into the hands of a playmaker as quickly as possible and waiting for the defense to make mistakes. The vertical offense Cam's been running from day 1 is the antithesis of the WCO and it puts a much greater burden on the QB. You're attempting a direct comparison using stats, so here's I stat I haven't seen you mention:  Cam had 517 passing attempts his rookie year while Wilson had only 393, so Cam was asked to throw the ball 124 more times than Wilson in his rookie year - ignoring the vast difference in scheme, is this a comparable sample size? Cam was asked to throw the ball 480 times in 2012, so that's only a difference of 

 

Bottom line, Cam is a much less experienced QB in a pro-style system (which you correctly pointed out) who is being asked to make much more difficult and high-risk throws based on our scheme.

 

This has a significant impact on any stat you can come up with, so it's an apples/oranges comparison. If we were running a WCO than you could perform a direct comparison. 

 

This is a good point to explore, and I think you have the wrong angle in it. What you are claiming is we can never analyze QBs on anything at all because they all play in different systems. No. You have to tease out what the stats mean within their systems. One point you are leaving out is that Cam's system has been weighted toward his skill set. The Seahawks did not have to do that with Wilson because he has no weakness and/or one skill area that is significantly better than the others. Perfectly balanced in being excellent in all of them. His one weakness is that he can tend to be high orlong on the deep ball, but he still threw a lot of 40 and 50-yard balls last season.

 

You can attempt the comparison, but it has to be viewed in consideration of what the QB is being asked to do and in this case the offense Cam is running is the antithesis of the offense Wilson is running so it's an especially difficult comparison, especially when you want to start talking about completion %. You recall that The Golden Calf of Bristol had a high completion % and a excellent TD/INT ratio during his time in Denver, I'm not comparing Wilson to The Golden Calf of Bristol just giving an example of how stats can be heavily skewed by what the QB is being asked to do and how often he's being asked to do it. 

 

Wilson makes all the throws. There is nothing he can't throw and nothing he avoids throwing. But, he protects the ball, hence 10 INTs (five were drops; don't know how many of Cam's were drops.) This is about decision-making and is more indicative of the development of the QB than perhaps any other measure when you factor out drops. (Football Outsiders does this, I think. You might explore their stuff.)

 

Wilson can spin it, no doubt... but the fact is that he's a WCO QB so he's playing in a system that is designed to simplify reads and minimize exposure to mistakes. You're also counting  Wilson's 10 INT's on 393 passing attempts vs. Cam's 12 INT's on 485 passing attempts in '12. This is an extremely flawed comparison. 

 

Wilson consistently chooses the long view over the short. Last season, for example, in the last game he had a choice on a TD: Toss it to the TE and get the rookie record for TDs all to himself, or give the team the safest shot at the TD and run it in. He ran it in. Both were fairly certain TDs, but the running TD was just a little safer, so that's what he did.

 

So you were inside Wilson's head when he made this decision? You could just as easily say he was being a glory hound by running it in himself instead of passing it. 

 

The INTs aren't about system, it's about accuracy and decision-making. Wilson was more accurate in college and in the pros. Heck, he tossed a 72 or 74% completion rate at Wisconsin! Rodgers and Brady throw the ball all day long and have very low INT numbers. Neither had a decent run game last year and it didn't matter.

 

Again you are comparison Wilson's completion % in a WCO offense to Cam's in a spread-option (against SEC competition). You do realize the vast difference between these offensive schemes, right? RIGHT? 

 

Cam's the better overall athlete, Wilson the better QB. That's just where they stand right now. It's up to Cam whether he can become the better of the two by being an equal QB and still be the better athlete.

 

Cam is the better athlete AND the better QB when you consider what he's being asked to do. In addition, we really need to see what year 2 looks like for Wilson before we can draw any conclusions about how good he is, for all we know we've seen the best he has to offer and now teams will start exposing his weaknesses and he won't be able to overcome them. Cam passed this test last year with flying colors, he emerged from this make or break phase playing the best football of his career. You should hope Wilson survives it as well as Cam did. 

 

[CatMan72]

But since K-Hawk wants to compare Wilson's 10 INT's on 393 passing attempts to Cam's 12 INT's on 485 passing attempts as evidence of Wilson's superior QB skills, here we go: 

 

• Wilson average one interception every 39 passing attempts. 
• Cam averaged an interception every 40 passing attempts. 

 

So wow, you really nailed me on that one. 

[Jackofalltrades]

Cam's rookie season is widely considered the best, all time, among QB's.

Wilson played well, as a game manager, with the #1 scoring D in the league.

Cam came out of a spread option offense, during a lockout, and ran away with Rookie of the Year running a highly complex offense while NEVER wearing any kind of aid.

Yep, Wilson was better.

[CatMan72]

Cam's rookie season is widely considered the best, all time, among QB's.

Wilson played well, as a game manager, with the #1 scoring D in the league.

Cam came out of a spread option offense, during a lockout, and ran away with Rookie of the Year running a highly complex offense while NEVER wearing any kind of aid.

Yep, Wilson was better.

 

Stop introducing facts into this discussion... LOL

[SCP]

It's funny how we saw no Seagull fans on this board before last years game. Maybe one or two.

[K-Hawk]

Cam had to prove himself worthy of the opening day job by his performance in training camp

 

Please. You want to pretend he was ever not going to start, go ahead. Only you believe it.

I love all the rhetoric and no facts. We have a VERY good idea how hard Wilson works. It;s been over-documented, if anything. That you are not accessing all the media on Wilson does not mean they are not being done, just that you don't made use of them.

 

Now, if you want to point me to an article that goes into any real-life info on Cam's prep, please do. But to just say, "Uh-uh!" doesn't cut it.

 

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/09/05/2767324/wilson-uses-attention-to-detail.html

 

http://seattle.sbnation.com/seattle-seahawks/2012/8/28/3275408/russell-wilson-checks-a-lot-of-boxes-on-pete-carrolls-qb-wishlist

 

"you can't imagine how hard he works. He's outworking everyone in the program right now. He's been here all summer long, every day. He spends hours every day in the facility, there's no one else there but him, working on his film, working on his notebook. Getting ready, so that when he gets his chance, .."

 

FYI, I've already stated Cam is working harder and maturing this year elsewhere. You might want to include what *positive* things I am saying about Cam instead of just complaining about decontextualized comments that are distorted by the lack of context.

Lordy...

"Like I said before, a decent WCO QB will always have a higher completion %"

It doesn't matter what the system is for Wilson. That is kind of the point. Whether pro style or WC, he's had excellent accuracy either way. Justify all you wish, but Wilson is historically more accurate regardless of system and regardless of what asked to do. It doesn't matter what you ask him to do, in other words, so it shouldn't for Cam, either, right?

 

"You're also counting  Wilson's 10 INT's on 393 passing attempts vs. Cam's 12 INT's on 485 passing attempts in '12. This is an extremely flawed comparison."

That's a fair point, the ratio.

 

"Cam is the better athlete AND the better QB when you consider what he's being asked to do."

You can keep saying that, but it don't make it so. We haven't even gotten into leadership. We did touch on maturity, and by extension, poise, and Wilson is clearly ahead there. On leadership? I don't think even a homer Panther fan would try to claim Cam has that over Wilson.

 

I can point you to articles that indicate how much Wilson, by his mere example, has changed the Seahawks. His determination, focus, work ethic, preparation and attitude have infused the team and caused other players to raise their game in this regard. You show me a player that raises the game of the team on AND off the field, I'll show you a true leader.

So, when all is said and done, Wilson clearly better thus far. This year? We shall see what we shall see.

All this doesn't really matter in the long run. We like our QB and you like yours. As it should be. Both are great athletes, both have been good to very good QBs and both have the potential to be great.

 

Here's to whatever the future brings!

[K-Hawk]

Cam's rookie season is widely considered the best, all time, among QB's.

Wilson played well, as a game manager, with the #1 scoring D in the league.

Cam came out of a spread option offense, during a lockout, and ran away with Rookie of the Year running a highly complex offense while NEVER wearing any kind of aid.

Yep, Wilson was better.

 

Was.

 

"as a game manager,"

Hahaha... you guys are delusional on this point. 26 TDs. 100 QB rating. 114 QB rating last five games. Records for rookies in the playoffs. 4 TD drives to come from 21 down vs. Atlanta only to have the D break down in coverage.

 

A 93 yd TD drive in the 4th Q vs. Bears then an 80 yard drive for a TD in overtime.

Game manager.

LOL....

Where did you get this silly meme?

[Marc Anthony]

Was.

"as a game manager,"

Hahaha... you guys are delusional on this point. 26 TDs. 100 QB rating. 114 QB rating last five games. Records for rookies in the playoffs. 4 TD drives to come from 21 down vs. Atlanta only to have the D break down in coverage.

A 93 yd TD drive in the 4th Q vs. Bears then an 80 yard drive for a TD in overtime.

Game manager.

LOL....

Where did you get this silly meme?

Um, you guys didn't actually blow us out, didn't we have a pick for TD on your great Russell?

[Chimera]

Was.

"as a game manager,"

Hahaha... you guys are delusional on this point. 26 TDs. 100 QB rating. 114 QB rating last five games. Records for rookies in the playoffs. 4 TD drives to come from 21 down vs. Atlanta only to have the D break down in coverage.

A 93 yd TD drive in the 4th Q vs. Bears then an 80 yard drive for a TD in overtime.

Game manager.

LOL....

Where did you get this silly meme?

Jake Delhomme was a game manager. Want to get into his first post season stats?

e: why am I even feeding this troll?

- lockout is equal to 3 way competition?

- Vertical passing or WCO has no bearing on completion % or passer rating?

Dude has the football IQ of a can of barbasol

[Marc Anthony]

Fact is, Russell will not be so comfortable in the pocket as expected. Boy will be runnin for his life!

[CarolinaCoolin]

Was.

"as a game manager,"

Hahaha... you guys are delusional on this point. 26 TDs. 100 QB rating. 114 QB rating last five games. Records for rookies in the playoffs. 4 TD drives to come from 21 down vs. Atlanta only to have the D break down in coverage.

A 93 yd TD drive in the 4th Q vs. Bears then an 80 yard drive for a TD in overtime.

Game manager.

LOL....

Where did you get this silly meme?

35 Tds> 26

4700 yards

Record for most touchdowns by a qb ever.

Only qb in history to throw for 4000+ and rush for 500+

It is definitely the best rookie season by a quarterback ever.

Cam is just as much as a leader as Wilson is but you have your head so far up your ass you actually believe media bullshit that cam is just a pouty kid. You'll see Sunday who is the better qb. Which is #1

[Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)]

Russ Wilson is my favorite non-Cam QB in the NFL, and it's not even close.

With that said, K Hawk, you are making baseless comments that hold no meaning whatsoever. We get it, Russ is good. But put Russ into our offense two years ago with no offseason work, and I can guarantee you Big Boii Russ wouldn't have finished with a 100+ rating. The year before Cam came in, we had about 18 different QBs start in 16 games. There's no way all of those QBs were actually as bad as our offense/coaches/defense made them seem.

[PhillyB]

russell wilson sux ballz