Handling of a Franchise Quarterback

[panthers55]

2 first round TEs?

Renting an old Shockey for a year is a building around Cam? Double Trouble you mentioned earlier?

Sure it was.  He was productive and was a steady relief valve for Cam.  

 

Should we go around the league and negate everyone who is playing on a 1 year contract as not helpful or useful to their team? 

[Monday Night Shyamalan]

offense wins games.

 

defense keeps you from losing them.

you have to get on the board more than the other team is able to keep up with. the goal of the defense is to slow up the other team's offense just enough that your defense can get/keep ahead.

 

of course it helps if your coach doesn't give the other team the ball with a couple minutes left and invites them to score.

 

Here was my response to CRA that can apply to your statement above... 

 

 

CRA, on 28 Aug 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

the Baltimore's don't scare me against our D....the Patriot type offenses do.

 

"True. 

 

Although one quick point to validate my claim, NYG would not have won those SB's if they didn't display that caliber of defensive-prowess. People point to Eli's amazing 4th qtr plays (Tyree and Manningham catches), but the defense won those games. With Getts at the helm, and Keek able to roam, dare I say our D will overshadow Cam during his tenure?

 

Anywho, nuff said about that. I'm just one of the few in this era who enjoys watching defense more than offense." 

 

I believe the offense vs defense debate (in regards to winning games) is a little more gray than people think. It's somewhat of a loaded discussion, as it's obviously a team sport, but just because you aren't the side putting up the points, doesn't mean you can't put your defensive foot first to win ballgames.

[panthers55]

2 first round TEs?

Renting an old Shockey for a year is a building around Cam? Double Trouble you mentioned earlier?

We are simply talking about different things...you are just looking at who the bodies are in a given year on a field....

Others are talking about investing in young talent to grow with a QB and to build something that last more than a season

What you and others are doing are selectively looking at only 2011 on as if that is all that counts and that is a skewed and inaccurate depiction of what we have done.

 

If a businessman saved a million dollars in the past and only saved 200 dollars in the past 2 years do you say he hasn't saved money for his retirement because look what he did in the past 2 years or do you look at the entirety of what was done?

[CRA]

And you can go back and look at a running backs best 2 games and it changes the numbers. Statistically it is not appropriately to do that so stop bringing it up as if it is a valid point.

On another aside, you act like everyone got tons of yards against New Orleans but they didn't. How many 200 yard rushers did the Saints give up on defense? 2 Jamal Charles and DeAngelo Williams. How many did Alfred get? 96. How many did Sean McCoy get? 119. How many did Frank Gore get? 83 And the list goes on. You can't fault the fact that Williams is a beast against new Orleans or just negate his success especially when not every back had the same success.

Any time something is the worst in the history of something....it skews things more so than your standard yearly crap.

I think the 14 other games give a more realistic view of who he was last year.

Those other RBs, were more consistent. One opponent didn't drastically skew there production like it did with Williams. That is why it is worth noting. Take away the team say Alfred Morris beasted on the most last year....it doesn't wildly swing his ypc.

[CRA]

What you and others are doing are selectively looking at only 2011 on as if that is all that counts and that is a skewed and inaccurate depiction of what we have done.

If a businessman saved a million dollars in the past and only saved 200 dollars in the past 2 years do you say he hasn't saved money for his retirement because look what he did in the past 2 years or do you look at the entirety of what was done?

I would disagree that your analogy fits....it may fit what you want this conversation to be about. Like I said, we really are looking different things....

[Ace_Aladdin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b13PYlXm9h4

 

[footballisasport]

First off, this isnt a thread on Cam's abilities or perceived lack of skills in certain areas. This is about how you view the organization has handle having a franchise level QB. 

 

In my personal opinion, i dont think we have handle having one very well. 

When you look at most of the recent teams with franchise level qbs, the teams have tried to build around them. Look at the drafts and moves for the Colts, Redskins and Seahawks. They either tried to provide weapons or protection for their qbs or already had established them on the team. 

 

I havent seen that from this team yet. Its almost as if they expect Cam to make up for the shortcomings of this team on offense. He has for the most part, but i think he will need some help eventually.

 

What is your opinion on how we have handled having a franchise QB so far? 

 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.

[pantherclaw]

Defense hasn't been fixed....DT was addressed. When we aren't playing a vertical passing team like Baltimore the gigantic hole that is our secondary will show much more.

better to have a great defensive front, and serviceable secondary than the other way around.

Disagree all yiu want.

[panthers55]

Any time something is the worst in the history of something....it skews things more so than your standard yearly crap.

I think the 14 other games give a more realistic view of who he was last year.

Those other RBs, were more consistent. One opponent didn't drastically skew there production like it did with Williams. That is why it is worth noting. Take away the team say Alfred Morris beasted on the most last year....it doesn't wildly swing his ypc.

 

Williams has always been a big play back. Others tend to be grinders and are more consistent.  It doesn't mean that his big runs are less valid or that you don't count them.  Homerun hitters usually hit for much less than other players yet they are still valued for what they do not what they don't do.

[panthers55]

 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.

Lets wait until after the season before we say this is true.  Unless you believe everything talking heads say......................................................

[panthers55]

I would disagree that your analogy fits....it may fit what you want this conversation to be about. Like I said, we really are looking different things....

Of course you disagree with my analogy since if flies in the face of what you said.  It doesn't make it any less true.  We aren't looking at different things, you are trying to skew the facts to fit your beliefs instead of looking at the facts and letting that inform your opinion.

[frash.exe]

Forgive me, but that is as ignorant of a statement as I have seen in awhile.

How are we as a fanbase to educate ourselves and better understand where the Franchise is headed if we do not take the time and try and understand how we ended up where we are?

It absolutely applies, it applies with a 40 million dollar Stewart on the PUP, it applies with a lack of OLine depth, a lack of impact skill players, it applies when the cap was/is in shambles limiting our new GM's ability to mold the roster.

Panther fans absolutely need to look back and often, to become better fans and more educated fans.

One of the biggest misconceptions on this board that is frequently parroted is that Hurney was a good cap manager. Some would even say he was great. But in my opinion, when your team finishes 6-10 to 8-8 most seasons and it's because you've got serious holes at like 4 or 5 positions, and you can't address them all because you're projected to be 7 mil over the cap by the time free agency starts so you have to restructure 4 player contracts just to get under there, you're not a good cap manager.

Hurney's gone but his ghost still haunts us in the form of overpaying contracts to damaged goods or declining players and it likely will affect Gettleman's ability to stock the team with talent for the next few years unless he's so ridiculously good at managing the cap that he can clear this mess up in short order, which I have some confidence that it is possible.

[Peppers90 NC]

Cam took a hit on 25% of his drop backs last year, more than any other quarterback. One way to handle your franchise qb is protect him and give him time. Not at all something happening here.

another way, is to acknowledge the deficiency of the oline and adjust the offense to more screens and other quick passes to eventually open up the vertical attack.  yes the oline suffered, but Cam isnt even close to perfect in the aspect of detecting trouble and finding the checkdown/hot wr.

[rayzor]

One of the biggest misconceptions on this board that is frequently parroted is that Hurney was a good cap manager. Some would even say he was great. But in my opinion, when your team finishes 6-10 to 8-8 most seasons and it's because you've got serious holes at like 4 or 5 positions, and you can't address them all because your projected to be 7 mil over the cap by the time free agency starts so you have to restructure 4 player contracts just to get under there, you're not a good cap manager.

Hurney's gone but his ghost still haunts us in the form of overpaying contracts to damaged goods or declining players and it likely will affect Gettleman's ability to stock the team with talent for the next few years unless he's so ridiculously good at managing the cap that he can clear this mess up in short order, which I have some confidence that it is possible.

 

being able to stay just barely under the cap and not have winning seasons means you are failing miserably at your job of putting together a winning team.