Barner over Williams

[tjmurray]

Oh, he was hurt all of last year. He took the damn field. #28 was hurt or dinged up when he ran for 200 yards against the giants. It is silly arguing a point with someone who always have an out. CRA always has an out. #28 struggles and the OL is weak or he was hurt. #34 struggles, he dances too much, he isn't quick to the hole, or my all time fav," he needs a hole." What back can consistently perform well without having a hole? Every back needs a hole. How can you constantly say Deangelo struggled last year and when someone throws Stewart's numbers at you, you say that he was hurt. Or he did just fine in '11. Well, DeAngelo did just fine in '11. #34 struggled out the gate and was the scapegoat last year. So, Rivera made a change and put Stewart in the starting role and featured him and you know what changed in the ground game? Not a damn thing. Did the team start winning after that? Absolutely not. When they changed the running scheme and #34 got an opportunity he started performing at high level again and that isn't coincidental. Until this team find a consistent threat at the #2 receiver spot, the offense will continue to struggle. This isn't about DeAngelo Williams. This isn't about Barnet or any other ball carrier. This is about Steve Smith being the only damn threat on the outside and it hinders the offense. Deangelo will be the main ball carrier until #28 comes back ready to do what he does. Deal with it...

[tjmurray]

*Barner

[Guest FredLane4Ever]

My phone was trying to do that to me as well.

[tjmurray]

Okay....so they preferred to start a hurt Stewart over Williams. Stewart goes to IR. Williams by default gets the rock and doesn't impress overall....unless he plays the worst D in history.

That is good enough? Williams did not run better in that stretch....he ran the same first half of the year as the second half (both Saints games excluded).

Opponents got worse, Cam got better, D got better..... we won. Run game stayed the same

This is laugh out loud funny.... "Run game stayed the same." Keep banging that drum...

[tjmurray]

Okay....so they preferred to start a hurt Stewart over Williams. Stewart goes to IR. Williams by default gets the rock and doesn't impress overall....unless he plays the worst D in history.

That is good enough? Williams did not run better in that stretch....he ran the same first half of the year as the second half (both Saints games excluded).

Opponents got worse, Cam got better, D got better..... we won. Run game stayed the same

This is laugh out loud funny.... "Run game stayed the same." Keep banging that drum...

[CRA]

The point of the thread is the poor oline play but you refuse to acknowledge the common ineffectiveness of Stewart last year.

Stewart wasn't effective. Never claimed he was. It simply is a fact he struggled to practice or even get on the field bc of injury.....and he was shortly done after finally getting on. That wasn't a healthy version of Stewart.

[CRA]

This is laugh out loud funny.... "Run game stayed the same." Keep banging that drum...

Williams' effectiveness as a runner didn't change.....not if you look at all games excluding the Saints. First 7 and last 7....identical production almost.

It is a statistical fact used in making such a statement. His ypc was identical....

[redbuddha]

For those of you suffering from delusion DWill is not our best running back, Cam is!

I think we have a better chance with Barner replacing Cam as our leading rusher.

Stewart, Williams, and Tolbert need an actual line to work best, and unfortunately we don't have one! Barner need to be used in a Randall Cobb/Reggie Bush fashion, off tackle, slot, in motion, read option.

That is if you don't want our qb to be our leading rusher again.

[CRA]

Oh, he was hurt all of last year. He took the damn field. #28 was hurt or dinged up when he ran for 200 yards against the giants. It is silly arguing a point with someone who always have an out. CRA always has an out. #28 struggles and the OL is weak or he was hurt. #34 struggles, he dances too much, he isn't quick to the hole, or my all time fav," he needs a hole." What back can consistently perform well without having a hole? Every back needs a hole. How can you constantly say Deangelo struggled last year and when someone throws Stewart's numbers at you, you say that he was hurt. Or he did just fine in '11. Well, DeAngelo did just fine in '11. #34 struggled out the gate and was the scapegoat last year. So, Rivera made a change and put Stewart in the starting role and featured him and you know what changed in the ground game? Not a damn thing. Did the team start winning after that? Absolutely not. When they changed the running scheme and #34 got an opportunity he started performing at high level again and that isn't coincidental. Until this team find a consistent threat at the #2 receiver spot, the offense will continue to struggle. This isn't about DeAngelo Williams. This isn't about Barnet or any other ball carrier. This is about Steve Smith being the only damn threat on the outside and it hinders the offense. Deangelo will be the main ball carrier until #28 comes back ready to do what he does. Deal with it...

Good or bad OL

I think you need to deal with the fact #34 doesn't fit the scheme as well as a healthy #28

Bad OL...and #34 likely shouldn't see significantly more attempts than options not named Stewart. Tolbert is relevant then. Barner too.

They changed the running looks....and Williams had the same ypc in the first 7 vs last 7. Both Saints game thrown out. How is 3 yards a high level? He did that first 7.

I am a Panther fan before a DeAngelo, Smitty, Cam or whoever fan...some people are such Williams fans (and understandably so), they can't acknowledge he isn't the same guy and also never been the ideal type RB in this post Fox offense

[tjmurray]

Williams' effectiveness as a runner didn't change.....not if you look at all games excluding the Saints. First 7 and last 7....identical production almost.

It is a statistical fact used in making such a statement. His ypc was identical....

That is the funny thing about life. You don't exclude things that actually happened. That Saints game happened, but I'll play along. Let's include that 80 yard Td run against the Raiders that was called back due to a hold away from the play. Since you love to take things away as if it never happened. Don't sit here and toss numbers around and say, see he was the same guy, when in reality he was a different player. Both running and catching the ball. Stewart, when healthy, is the superior talent. No question. But don't sit here and tell me Kenjon Barner is a better option at this point in his career because of the line play. That is just a terrible assessment.

[Panthro]

The people who clamoring for dwill share the same mindset that makes us 7-9 every damn year.

Players over team

Go buy another jersey

[CPcavedweller]

I think you will begin to see WR screens and scat back screens that the coaches view as running plays.

As soon as we begin running plays that will spread the defense horizontally, running lanes will open. I want to see us stretch the field vertically.

On the third down pass Lafell dropped, Ginn has the safeties and his man beat up field, Cam just had to get him the ball. I want to see cam understand the numbers of defenders he sees and what that means for other routes he's not looking at.

[CRA]

That is the funny thing about life. You don't exclude things that actually happened. That Saints game happened, but I'll play along. Let's include that 80 yard Td run against the Raiders that was called back due to a hold away from the play. Since you love to take things away as if it never happened. Don't sit here and toss numbers around and say, see he was the same guy, when in reality he was a different player. Both running and catching the ball. Stewart, when healthy, is the superior talent. No question. But don't sit here and tell me Kenjon Barner is a better option at this point in his career because of the line play. That is just a terrible assessment.

Considering how drastically 2 games against the worst D in NFL history skewed his production.....it is makes more sense to look at what he did in 14 games against defenses that could at least claim to have a defense....to get a good idea of what he was doing.

Again, it isn't like we are just excluding a game against a bad D....they were the worst in the history of the sport. He got them twice.

Against a bad OL in this scheme ....I think Tolbert already has proven to be a be better option. I think it is worth looking at Barner as possibly better as well.....bc like Zod....some of what makes Barner a worse RB at this stage could actually work in his favor. Barner isn't going to use his blockers...and that gets Williams stuffed.

People want to make it always about Williams....it really isn't even that. More about what we are doing and the best guy for that at the time

[Jmac]

One problem with Barner is that he is a lability picking up the blitz.This fact my limit how we use him with this crappy Line we have.