Why do we have lack of "difference maker" talent at select areas? Lets look.

[scratchy1]

yeah, I don't think Hurney was fired and then he went looking for a new NFL job. I think when Hurney was fired JR and Hurney both new he was done in the NFL.....

If true Hurney, does have personal issues but I believe that Hurney fell on the sword for JR. Yes, Hurney made horrible contracts but he did so on a plan that IMO JR paved the road for.

 

I think it's fair to blame Hurney, the scouts and the coaches (to the extent of their supporting input) for poor draft decisions.  Hurney has not been shy about telling people privately that Richardson forced his hand on some of the long-term deals for players that Jerry (for different reasons) insisted should remain on the team for their careers.  I really don't know whether DG will have the ability to deal with those freely.  I tend to think he will, because I'm confident he understood the backstory when he interviewed, and I'm confident he would not have taken the job without assurances that player personnel decisions would be his and his alone to make.  But Richardson has a history of stubbornness and dogmatic adherence to his own way of thinking, and it's not beyond doubt that he might go back on his word and decide to overrule his GM.  If you talk t people who have known him a long time, notwitstanding the immense respect, the one thing that keeps coming up is that he can be a bully and a jerk when something's really important to him.

[CRA]

I think it's fair to blame Hurney, the scouts and the coaches (to the extent of their supporting input) for poor draft decisions. Hurney has not been shy about telling people privately that Richardson forced his hand on some of the long-term deals for players that Jerry (for different reasons) insisted should remain on the team for their careers. I really don't know whether DG will have the ability to deal with those freely. I tend to think he will, because I'm confident he understood the backstory when he interviewed, and I'm confident he would not have taken the job without assurances that player personnel decisions would be his and his alone to make. But Richardson has a history of stubbornness and dogmatic adherence to his own way of thinking, and it's not beyond doubt that he might go back on his word and decide to overrule his GM. If you talk t people who have known him a long time, notwitstanding the immense respect, the one thing that keeps coming up is that he can be a bully and a jerk when something's really important to him.

Fair to blame Hurney for his part...

Jerry Richardson somehow gets overlooked in the talk of the mess Hurney's name is on though

I think DG will be similar to Hurney in some regards....if he wants his job he will simply do what a very hands owner says. The fact JR made be call on RR, who he reportedly doesn't even like, not allowing the new GM part of that discussion just further shows IMO how JR's hands on approach is as strong as ever.

[frash.exe]

I wonder if a new cut of blow is being distributed around bars and nightclubs in the Carolinas that they're calling hurney magic

[Cyberjag]

Yep.

Which is why I am hesitant about this Gettlemen hype. He has tweaked some painfully obvious contracts....that is all we really can say about him.

One draft doesn't say much....don't know yet what his habits will be there. Double down on DT I think can cause some curious questions.

My hesitation with DG is really a JR question. He fired his GM....then first thing he did was jump the gun and make himself the first actual call his new GM should of been part of. Now I am a RR fan so I would have been ticked if got fired but I think DG should of been in on it. Another example of how Jerry has kept the FO and coaching staff in recent years on different pages.....result is bad.

I think JR has more Jerry Jones in him than people think.....difference Jerry simply doesn't talk to anyone and is in a small market

 

I don't care about the contracts, because we always had a contract and cap mess under Hurney, and he always got it cleaned up because that's what he was good at.  Gettleman just did the same sort of thing Hurney did, although I can see Hurney making more of an effort to keep Gamble.

 

As far as judging him, everyone likes to pretend that Hurney (and now Gettleman) did his job in isolation.  He didn't, he took input from his scouts, the coach, and probably even JR when he drafted and went after free agents.  And if you compare what he and Fox did in the draft with what he and RR did, it's immediately apparent that he was better with Fox.  And so far, it looks like Gettleman/Rivera are better than Hurney/Rivera.  But then again, every year at this time we're applauding the rookies, so the jury is still out.

 

The one thing I would like to ask Hurney about, if I could get an honest answer, is what he thought about the offensive style early last year.  He had Stewart and Williams, and added Tolbert (which I'm sure was endorsed by RR).  What do you think went through his mind when we didn't open with a real power-running offense?

 

And as far as him not going after another job, would you?  The guy worked insane hours for years, and if you look at what the past three were like it's easy to imagine him just being burned out.

[DaCityKats]

Yep.

Which is why I am hesitant about this Gettlemen hype. He has tweaked some painfully obvious contracts....that is all we really can say about him.

One draft doesn't say much....don't know yet what his habits will be there. Double down on DT I think can cause some curious questions.

My hesitation with DG is really a JR question. He fired his GM....then first thing he did was jump the gun and make himself the first actual call his new GM should of been part of. Now I am a RR fan so I would have been ticked if got fired but I think DG should of been in on it. Another example of how Jerry has kept the FO and coaching staff in recent years on different pages.....result is bad.

I think JR has more Jerry Jones in him than people think.....difference Jerry simply doesn't talk to anyone and is in a small market

 

i agree with a lot of this as well.to early to know what type of GM DG is right now, especially with 1 off season. but, i also view Jerry as someone who will enforce his thinking onto his GM. since the panthers had an consultant to find a GM, i thought the search would have moved a lot faster so the new GM could decide to pick the HC, not JR. not a fan of doubling on 1 position when there are so many holes on a roster either. especially a 1st and 2nd rounder.

 

[CRA]

I don't care about the contracts, because we always had a contract and cap mess under Hurney, and he always got it cleaned up because that's what he was good at. Gettleman just did the same sort of thing Hurney did, although I can see Hurney making more of an effort to keep Gamble.

As far as judging him, everyone likes to pretend that Hurney (and now Gettleman) did his job in isolation. He didn't, he took input from his scouts, the coach, and probably even JR when he drafted and went after free agents. And if you compare what he and Fox did in the draft with what he and RR did, it's immediately apparent that he was better with Fox. And so far, it looks like Gettleman/Rivera are better than Hurney/Rivera. But then again, every year at this time we're applauding the rookies, so the jury is still out.

The one thing I would like to ask Hurney about, if I could get an honest answer, is what he thought about the offensive style early last year. He had Stewart and Williams, and added Tolbert (which I'm sure was endorsed by RR). What do you think went through his mind when we didn't open with a real power-running offense?

And as far as him not going after another job, would you? The guy worked insane hours for years, and if you look at what the past three were like it's easy to imagine him just being burned out.

getting under the cap and tweaking numbers doesn't make you a good cap manager.

Every GM in NFL history has been able to do that prior to a season starting

His bad contracts prohibited how we could invest in the overall team. Made us have lots of holes.

I don't think Hurney did his job in isolation. JR paved the road for him and when drafts came around and FAs he could pick up....he was very much a coach's GM. Lameduck 2010 is the only season IMO coaches didn't dictate the drafted players much.

[dksmith17]

Which is why I am hesitant about this Gettlemen hype. He has tweaked some painfully obvious contracts....that is all we really can say about him.

 

He also made Shula OC

 

I understand that perhaps he didn't want to commit to more than 1 year because of the potential lame duck HC situation.

 

Still, Shula runs a very traditional + vanilla system. Recent trends suggest nontraditional options like pistol, up tempo, are the future. The pistol basically embarassed defenses last year. I was optimistic about Shula before preseason but now can't help but worry.

 

Keeping Cam happy and confident is maybe Getts most important job right now. My worry is just that Getts is not very forward thinking or offensive minded. 

 

 

This is also a good example of why I don't like what JR did with Rivera, Fox and Hurney leaving at seperate times. GM and coach need to be fired at the same time. 

[Cyberjag]

I didn't mean to imply a causation there, he was considered a cap guy before he became GM. Gettleman's background is scouting.  Frankly, at their level I would be surprised if either of them actually came up with cap solutions, those are done by accountants in the front office, and just approved by the GM.

 

And on the contracts issue, they were what they were because they were what was needed to keep the team he wanted intact.  We all think they're stupid, but none of us really know what went on behind the scenes, and there's never been an indication we would have spent the money differently had we not had them--JR doesn't like high priced free agents and neither, apparently, do our GMs. If you assume that we were going to spend the money anyway, then what difference does it make how out of whack it seems to us? 

 

I think you're dead on regarding 2010 too.  So far, it wasn't a terrible draft, but it wasn't a great one.  Hardy and LaFell are solid, and Gettis and Edwards still have promise.  It would be interesting to know who Fox would have rather had, but we never will.

[thefuzz]

Hurney, while hitting on the first rounders...when he didn't trade them away, was building a team the wrong way.....IMO.

 

I loved Jake, but it was obvious with the rule changes that this would become a passing league, we went the exact wrong way in trying to stay in front of it.

 

We continued to use high draft picks on LB's and RB's....not so bright...then Hurney went full retard and signed them to extremely stupid deals....again, not so bright.

 

It seemed to me that Hurney never had a vision of what he wanted his team to be.

[CRA]

 

It seemed to me that Hurney never had a vision of what he wanted his team to be.

 

See, that IMO is all the Big Cat.

 

Hurney had a vision - which was helping Fox.

 

Hurney should of been fired w/ Fox.

 

JR then created these odd times....JR was Mr.Lockout and dictated Hurney cut vets and do nothing, Hurney then has a lameduck coach and drafted for an unknown team/coach depsite Fox still being here, then Mr. Lockout dictated he start overpaying Fox guys after Fox was out, so then you have a highly and freshly paid Fox team for a new staff.....

[Cyberjag]

Ok, for the deep thinkers out there, why did Hurney hire Rivera?  It's obvious from the performance that he was never on the same page with Rivera like he was with Fox.  And when that manifested in last season's terrible start, why was Hurney the one let go?

 

Makes you wonder who really wanted RR.  I've heard that JR didn't want him, but maybe that's not the case at all.

[thefuzz]

Ok, for the deep thinkers out there, why did Hurney hire Rivera?  It's obvious from the performance that he was never on the same page with Rivera like he was with Fox.  And when that manifested in last season's terrible start, why was Hurney the one let go?

 

Makes you wonder who really wanted RR.  I've heard that JR didn't want him, but maybe that's not the case at all.

 

I didn't notice any difference from the end of the Hurney/Fox era, and the Hurney/RR era.

 

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

That said, Hurney wasn't a "football guy" and probably hired RR because it was the closest thing to what he was accustomed to....Fox.

 

Defensive minded, players coach.

[dksmith17]

Ok, for the deep thinkers out there, why did Hurney hire Rivera?  It's obvious from the performance that he was never on the same page with Rivera like he was with Fox.  And when that manifested in last season's terrible start, why was Hurney the one let go?

 

Makes you wonder who really wanted RR.  I've heard that JR didn't want him, but maybe that's not the case at all.

JR is defensive minded for one

 

Also that 2010 defense was terrible.

[CRA]

Ok, for the deep thinkers out there, why did Hurney hire Rivera?  It's obvious from the performance that he was never on the same page with Rivera like he was with Fox.  And when that manifested in last season's terrible start, why was Hurney the one let go?

 

Makes you wonder who really wanted RR.  I've heard that JR didn't want him, but maybe that's not the case at all.

 

He hired him b/c he liked him.

 

but before Rivera was hired....JR had Hurney basically go all in and invest w/ Fox era players   Little resources to do much besides let Rivera draft who he wanted....and bring in some bargain guys.  JR is the one creating these odd GM/coach combo seasons