Why do we have lack of "difference maker" talent at select areas? Lets look.

[carolina-chuck]

I blame the HC not being able to utilize the given talents.

(Hint: Jim Harbaugh)

[SIGCHI222]

The Huddle is in rare form today.

[Johnny Rockets]

 Everyone is so down about him last season because they artificially built him up based on HuddleHype.

That phrase needs to used a lot more around here.

[Keep Pounding]

I dont agree with your assessment of Hardy, in 2011 he may have not had a lot of sacks, but didn't he lead the league in batted passes for DL in 2011?

 

Other then that I agree 1000% percent.

[panthers55]

I blame the HC not being able to utilize the given talents.

(Hint: Jim Harbaugh)

Harbaugh had a lot more talent when he inherited his team versus Rivera.  Secondly, our offense has had the 2 best years back to back of any offense we have had in our history.  Any other time we would have a good year but couldn't keep it up.  Truth is that Rivera made a fantastic decision to ignore the pundits and play Cam right away.  On defense we have hada plethora of injuries which may not be an excuse but are the truth. It was a clear reason we played so vanilla in the secondary last year.  I think this defense will be his best yet.  I know he has made mistakes for sure but he isn't the reason we have lost as many games as we have.  The biggest reason is lack of veteran presence in a number of key positions the past 2 years.   When you take someone undrafted and start them or move someone from the practice squad to starting in 2 weeks you can't expect a great performance. That and some veterans failing to live up to their billing like Nakamura.

[Khaki Lackey]

Everyone that was shrieking like schoolgirls about the Klein and Barner picks were not thinking long term. I think Gettleman has a long term plan and it looks as if getting out of bad contacts and thinking about the future is part of it.

Gettleman seems to like to draft BPA within reason. I think he liked Star and KK better than any OLmen on the board at the time. Better to have a good LB when you don't need him than 2 sh!tty 3rd round DT's even if you do need them.

[Kurb]

I think you are being way too critical on some of these picks.  For example what ever happened to waiting for 3 years before evaluating a draft class.

 

Also anytime you find a contributor after the 4th round you are doing great.  Anytime you find a starter outside of the 3rd round you are doing awesome.  Several guys like Hardy and Gettis for example were late round draft picks who have played very well for us.  Sure Gettis has been hurt but you can't know that when you draft them.  And if he returns to form this year ( and it is looking good) he will have been a great pickup.

 

Edwards may have been a bust up to now but if he shines this year it was still worth it.

 

Sure we have some big busts but lets compare that to new Orleans for example and you will find they have done worse than Hurney did.  It hasn't killed them or set them back.  Then again they are more active in the free agent market than we have been.

The moral here is if you are going to rely on the draft for all your players you better be good at drafting.  We haven't always done that.

 

A couple of things here. 

You have to set your own fan compass on how long you are willing to give a player to contribute. 

Gettis was a late round guy, indeed, the fact remains he has been hurt for what 3years straight? 2? regardless he has not contributed to the team in terms of winning games and has cost cap space, no matter how minute. So yes, until he starts producing on the field tangible results he is/was a waste of a roster spot.  If he blows up this year, then it was a 6th rounder that found his feet and becomes a solid pick. These things aren't always set in stone.

 

Hardy I mentioned didn't really do anything until last season, perhaps that is to harsh as he was a 6th round selection. He contributed on special teams I believe and rotated in and out on the DLine.  He was what a 6th round guy would be expected to be.

 

Edwards has an issue that is unfair to him. At this point in his career it is next to impossible to ever be worth what was invested in him draft pick wise. He honestly would need to have become at minimum some type of KR/PR/WR/Offensive Weapon by now to justify costing multiple picks. He has not, he has actually HURT the team by muffing punts and such. This is not hate towards him, for its not his fault he was picked like he was. Had he been a 4th rounder or so no one would really care he hasn't done poo in his career.

 

New Orleans has something that lets their GM fug up all he wants for awhile and thats a SuperBowl ring. That SuperBowl ring was gained with a couple really good drafts and some exceptional free agent signings. Their continues success after that run was more of the same. That said, you are correct, they have drafted like garbage the past couple of drafts and it's REALLY starting to show up on the defense.  Thing is the Panthers have drafted poorly for 4 years AND spent poorly in Free Agency at levels that can't be easily fixed. That and, well, Hurney's team didn't win a SuperBowl... 

[Kurb]

I blame the HC not being able to utilize the given talents.

(Hint: Jim Harbaugh)

 

and you would be both right and wrong, but mostly wrong in your comparison.

 

 

While I'll not say that Rivera is on equal footing with either Harbaugh. I will say that the Niners roster was pretty solid when he became head coach. Partially in part to the Panthers giving away 1st round picks.  Their O-line is young and strong. They had a good defense. All they really needed was a leader and someone to teach Alex Smith not to poo the bed every Sunday.  Harbaugh had a much easier road to victory than Rivera, I can't help but thing that played a little in what lead us to having Rivera vs a higher end HC candidate. NFL people knew this FO had made a mess of its roster and cap, who would walk into that mess other than the guy who had been passed over since the Bears made the Super Bowl.

[panfan32]

You were pretty harsh on alot of guys on that list. While Norman has looked better in the preseason the jury is still out on him and he was pretty trash last year. Lets be fair if Edwards is epic bust then Norman is far from solid at this point.

 

I agree. Last season I wanted to drive to the stadium and beat the poo out of Him and the coaching staff for letting him start over Capt. So many blown coverages so many missed tackles. He is far from a "Solid" pick but looks to have some upside.

[CRA]

If Rivera inherited the 49ers D as a first year HC....he would have back to back winning records his first 2 years. 

 

 

[panthers55]

A couple of things here. 

You have to set your own fan compass on how long you are willing to give a player to contribute. 

Gettis was a late round guy, indeed, the fact remains he has been hurt for what 3years straight? 2? regardless he has not contributed to the team in terms of winning games and has cost cap space, no matter how minute. So yes, until he starts producing on the field tangible results he is/was a waste of a roster spot.  If he blows up this year, then it was a 6th rounder that found his feet and becomes a solid pick. These things aren't always set in stone.

 

Hardy I mentioned didn't really do anything until last season, perhaps that is to harsh as he was a 6th round selection. He contributed on special teams I believe and rotated in and out on the DLine.  He was what a 6th round guy would be expected to be.

 

Edwards has an issue that is unfair to him. At this point in his career it is next to impossible to ever be worth what was invested in him draft pick wise. He honestly would need to have become at minimum some type of KR/PR/WR/Offensive Weapon by now to justify costing multiple picks. He has not, he has actually HURT the team by muffing punts and such. This is not hate towards him, for its not his fault he was picked like he was. Had he been a 4th rounder or so no one would really care he hasn't done poo in his career.

 

New Orleans has something that lets their GM fug up all he wants for awhile and thats a SuperBowl ring. That SuperBowl ring was gained with a couple really good drafts and some exceptional free agent signings. Their continues success after that run was more of the same. That said, you are correct, they have drafted like garbage the past couple of drafts and it's REALLY starting to show up on the defense.  Thing is the Panthers have drafted poorly for 4 years AND spent poorly in Free Agency at levels that can't be easily fixed. That and, well, Hurney's team didn't win a SuperBowl... 

I think we all agree that Edwards has been nothing but a bust up to this point but again if he redeems himself this year we might salvage something.

 

Gettis has already justified his draft pick based on what he did his first year.  And no he has not been hurt for 3 years, just 2. Second he was on a rookie contract which is right at veteran minimum.   If you call him a bust then do we call Beason a bust because he took 2 years to heal?  What about Davis, he took 3. They all hurt our cap.  Sure they were better but cost a bunch more as well.

 

New Orleans hasn't drafted well at well we agree.  But what they did do was find some great pieces in free agent including Brees which made all the difference.  That is really what they done well, they are not afraid to bring in free agents like Vilma, Sharper, Sproles among others.  Something we have frankly done too little of.

 

As for what we have done really, we have found our franchise quarterback which is the biggest step to any team making the Superbowl.  I think we have frankly turned the corner and expect only better things from here.  Sure Hurney made some huge mistakes but has dome some great things as well.  Kuechly and Newton were 2 of them.

[Kurb]

I think we all agree that Edwards has been nothing but a bust up to this point but again if he redeems himself this year we might salvage something.

 

Gettis has already justified his draft pick based on what he did his first year.  And no he has not been hurt for 3 years, just 2. Second he was on a rookie contract which is right at veteran minimum.   If you call him a bust then do we call Beason a bust because he took 2 years to heal?  What about Davis, he took 3. They all hurt our cap.  Sure they were better but cost a bunch more as well.

 

New Orleans hasn't drafted well at well we agree.  But what they did do was find some great pieces in free agent including Brees which made all the difference.  That is really what they done well, they are not afraid to bring in free agents like Vilma, Sharper, Sproles among others.  Something we have frankly done too little of.

 

As for what we have done really, we have found our franchise quarterback which is the biggest step to any team making the Superbowl.  I think we have frankly turned the corner and expect only better things from here.  Sure Hurney made some huge mistakes but has dome some great things as well.  Kuechly and Newton were 2 of them.

 

I would have supported releasing TD after his second Knee injury, Beason was healthy for his rookie deal and a exceptional MLB, he resigned injured so its a "bust" of a deal thats for sure.

 

Luckily decades from now, Hurney will be more remembered as the guy who drafted Luke and Cam that his late career cap/draft errors.

[Kurb]

Don't agree with DJ Campbell's label. He's superior to Martin and Nakamura. Give him a fair shake.

Just a Guy right now. 

Jury is still out.

[carolina-chuck]

Harbaugh had a lot more talent when he inherited his team versus Rivera.  Secondly, our offense has had the 2 best years back to back of any offense we have had in our history.  Any other time we would have a good year but couldn't keep it up.  Truth is that Rivera made a fantastic decision to ignore the pundits and play Cam right away.  On defense we have a plethora of injuries which may not be an excuse but are the truth. I think this defense will be his best yet.  I know he has made mistakes for sure but he isn't the reason we have lost as many games as we have.  The biggest reason is lack of veteran presence in a number of key positions the past 2 years.   When you take someone undrafted and start them or move someone from the practice squad to starting in 2 weeks you can't expect a great performance. That and some veterans failing to live up to their billing like Nakamura.

  

and you would be both right and wrong, but mostly wrong in your comparison.

 

 

While I'll not say that Rivera is on equal footing with either Harbaugh. I will say that the Niners roster was pretty solid when he became head coach. Partially in part to the Panthers giving away 1st round picks.  Their O-line is young and strong. They had a good defense. All they really needed was a leader and someone to teach Alex Smith not to poo the bed every Sunday.  Harbaugh had a much easier road to victory than Rivera, I can't help but thing that played a little in what lead us to having Rivera vs a higher end HC candidate. NFL people knew this FO had made a mess of its roster and cap, who would walk into that mess other than the guy who had been passed over since the Bears made the Super Bowl.

I don't understand the undervaluing of our players when being compared to a SF (Harbaugh) or Denver (Foxy) team. I take it as an excuse from the fans.

Why? We had just as much talents as both of those team. The difference is how the other two coaches were able to utilizes them. Just look at Alex Smith and that poor Denver Broncos Defense/The Golden Calf of Bristol in 2012.

Kurb, you can act like it was just that easy for someone to teach Alex Smith to not poo the bed. But, why did it takes so long? Again, it comes back to the HC (Harbaugh). Why couldnt Rivera teach the running game or his "defense"? And today he's still having problem with it. Poor runnin game and defense is till mediocre.

This 2013 Panthers team is a "win now" team. Not SB contender though.

Playoffs, absoluetly. But, the performances on the field doesn't justify it bc we plays like "poo". It all comes down to Rivera.