Risers and Fallers - Eagles Edition

[The Golden Child]

Jason Wiliams had a good game.

[CRA]

How many preseason games has Stewart ever played? Yeah........................

I don't know if Williams in 2008 is better than 2013, I haven't seen a drop off. I haven't seen a drop off with Smith. It surely is a debate.

How can you judge the O-line in 2013 when we haven't played a game.

Stewart played in the preseason as a rookie... 16 games as a rookie. As he ages, his injury process is impacting his ability to play more and more.

You don't know if a 25 yr old version of NFL RB Williams that was a comical video game was better than a 30 yr old version.

Steve Smith can't take the top off a D like he could in 2008 and his routes are now altered. Speed and explosiveness are clearly different now. Still a great WR but not what he was. Claiming you don't know if 89 is less of a player than he was a half decade ago.....well, you aren't being honest with yourself

It isn't debatable that Williams and Smitty are now older....and lack some of what they had a half decade ago.

[CRA]

Gettis is definitely on the upswing. I don't think he proven ha has earned a spot running with the ones. He looked good but he was practically the only receiver getting anything catchable thrown his way and it was against 2nd and 3rd string secondary. Yes the light is getting brighter but keep it in perspective. One thing is for sure he is the chosen one of the huddle. Huggers were loving him up the last couple of years and he didn't even play.

Deserves a spot over who? Smitty, LaFell and even Ginn have made nice plays against 1's

[Ruff]

I don't know how you don't have Barner's stock as falling. The dude got stonewalled trying to run the ball last night (which could be an example of our piss-poor offensive line), muffed a punt (granted, he was run into), and has looked shaky since the end of the Bears game until now. Gotta learn to hang onto the ball, dude. there's one sure-fire way to not keep your job in the NFL, and that's to fumble the ball.

[AceBoogie]

Are you serious?

Stewart is on PUP now and can't even get healthy. Give me the rookie over the guy battling through years of nagging NFL injuries.

2008 Williams >> 2013 Williams

2008 Smith >> 2013

Not close and not a debate

2008 OL? Younger Gross and Wharton, Vincent Otah are better collectively. Otah was almost pro bowler caliber that year....

Lol so Cam has a lot of Jakes now older leftovers and his cast is better? 2008 was much better than what we have. A few years ago we had one of the best o lines in football. Not anymore. Dlo ain't that dlo. And who the hell knows where Stewart is at this stage in his career. Steve Smith is still good but he ain't the same. For god sakes our best wr is 34 and barely 5'9.

[CRA]

Lol so Cam has a lot of Jakes now older leftovers and his cast is better? 2008 was much better than what we have. A few years ago we had one of the best o lines in football. Not anymore. Dlo ain't that dlo. And who the hell knows where Stewart is at this stage in his career. Steve Smith is still good but he ain't the same. For god sakes our best wr is 34 and barely 5'9.

Talk to 55...he is the one who wants to argue 30 yr old players aren't lesser versions of there past selves who dominated at the time.

Gross, Smitty and Williams were definitely better or more dangerous in 2008 than 2013. The team around Jake was so good....how bad he had declined bc of Tommy John was masked most of the year

[panthers55]

Stewart played in the preseason as a rookie... 16 games as a rookie. As he ages, his injury process is impacting his ability to play more and more.

You don't know if a 25 yr old version of NFL RB Williams that was a comical video game was better than a 30 yr old version.

Steve Smith can't take the top off a D like he could in 2008 and his routes are now altered. Speed and explosiveness are clearly different now. Still a great WR but not what he was. Claiming you don't know if 89 is less of a player than he was a half decade ago.....well, you aren't being honest with yourself

It isn't debatable that Williams and Smitty are now older....and lack some of what they had a half decade ago.

First of all 2013 hasn't happened so this is all speculation.  Secondly I showed you objectively with numbers that Smitty is just productive.  What you lose in pure speed you gain in experience and precision so the result can be the same.  Williams has a little over 1000 carries in his career so it is hard to say that he is over the hill. He took more of a beating in college when he was 18-22.  It isn't the age of the player it is the wear and tear.  30 years old is not old if a player hasn't broken down or suffered numerous serious injuries.  What you lose in one area you gain in another.

I am not only honest but objective guided by facts and expert opinions.  

[panthers55]

Talk to 55...he is the one who wants to argue 30 yr old players aren't lesser versions of there past selves who dominated at the time.

Gross, Smitty and Williams were definitely better or more dangerous in 2008 than 2013. The team around Jake was so good....how bad he had declined bc of Tommy John was masked most of the year

Stop with the constant over exaggerations which is the only way you can be correct.  The studies on 30 yr old running backs don't show straight line deterioration as you suggest or even show that they can't have productive years later on in their career.  Curtis Martin's career highs in yards per carry and total yards  came in his 10th year in the league.year 10, well after he hit 30.

Stop saying I am talking about all 30 year olds or all players.  I am talking about 2 players, Williams and Smith.  I said the numbers don't suggest they are slowing down and they don't.  That is all I said.  Stop trying to spin it into something else in an attempt to appear correct.

[panthers55]

Lol so Cam has a lot of Jakes now older leftovers and his cast is better? 2008 was much better than what we have. A few years ago we had one of the best o lines in football. Not anymore. Dlo ain't that dlo. And who the hell knows where Stewart is at this stage in his career. Steve Smith is still good but he ain't the same. For god sakes our best wr is 34 and barely 5'9.

I would think that you would wait until after 2013 at least begins before deciding that 2008 was better.  Save this thread for February  at the earliest.

 

Unless you have a way back machine.

[Rook35200]

People lose sight of that....

For example if a team get blitz happy....Carolina offensively is still just going to stick with a small set of plays. They aren't going to adjust and open up a playbook based on what Philly is doing. Same on D.

I think our talent issues are more of a concern than Rivera.

Secondary will be a bigger issue some weaks based on the scheme opponent run....OL an issue against everyone

 

 

I don't think the Eagles had a specific gameplan against us either and they still kicked our ass. We couldn't move the ball on them on offense and we couldn't stop them on defense. Vick and Foles went a combined 16/17. This team has big broblems. This team still has the same holes on the offensive line and in the secondary.

[CRA]

First of all 2013 hasn't happened so this is all speculation. Secondly I showed you objectively with numbers that Smitty is just productive. What you lose in pure speed you gain in experience and precision so the result can be the same. Williams has a little over 1000 carries in his career so it is hard to say that he is over the hill. He took more of a beating in college when he was 18-22. It isn't the age of the player it is the wear and tear. 30 years old is not old if a player hasn't broken down or suffered numerous serious injuries. What you lose in one area you gain in another.

I am not only honest but objective guided by facts and expert opinions.

2012 has happened....time has happened

The 2013 of versions of Smith and DWill are not as good of players as the 2008 versions.

Smith has altered how he is productive as well as the coaches based on how they use him. Why? Bc he isn't the same player. Good? Yes? Productive? Yes. The same nightmare? No.

You have already dug yourself into a hole you are going to commit to arguing.....but everyone knows if you had to pick a version of Williams and Smitty to play for you tomorrow you are picking the 2008 versions over the 2013.

Delhomme had a better starting lineup around him in 2008 than Cam in 2013. It is what it is....normally I would debate you for days but this one is such a no brainier I can walk away from this debate...

[CRA]

Stop with the constant over exaggerations which is the only way you can be correct. The studies on 30 yr old running backs don't show straight line deterioration as you suggest or even show that they can't have productive years later on in their career. Curtis Martin's career highs in yards per carry and total yards came in his 10th year in the league.year 10, well after he hit 30.

Stop saying I am talking about all 30 year olds or all players. I am talking about 2 players, Williams and Smith. I said the numbers don't suggest they are slowing down and they don't. That is all I said. Stop trying to spin it into something else in an attempt to appear correct.

There play however does suggest they are different players...

Again, they use Smith differently now and he plays different. So like I said, productive? Yes. Same nightmare no.

Smith no longer threatens teams vertically like he did nor is the YAC BEAST he was.

2008 > 2013.

Both versions productive. Both versions go about it different and impact opponents different

[AceBoogie]

I would think that you would wait until after 2013 at least begins before deciding that 2008 was better. Save this thread for February at the earliest.

Unless you have a way back machine.

I think what you are missing is that the 2008 Steve Smith would have better numbers if he played with Cam.

[CRA]

I think what you are missing is that the 2008 Steve Smith would have better numbers if he played with Cam.

Yeah, Smith put up career production with Tommy John Jake.