What exactly is the point of running a conservative offense?!?

[CRA]

Conservative is also running a safe play instead of a risky one. If you get 8 yards on first down and have second and 2 do you pick up the first down running or passing the ball or go for broke and chuck it deep every time looking for a big play. Then if you don't get the first down you are three and out instead of having 2 chances to make 3 yards. How many times did Chud do that?. Conservative can be smart but it doesn't have to be predictable or predominantly running the ball. Foxball when he was here isn't the only way or even the best way to run a conservative offense. He did okay because he had a good defense. Something I expect to have this year.

Some offenses by design are more risky. A vertical pass offense is more risky than others out there.

[panthers55]

Some offenses by design are more risky. A vertical pass offense is more risky than others out there.

Vertical passing attacks are not risky by design. If your quarterback has a strong accurate arm and throws a great deep ball sending a guy deep like Ginn opens up the high percentage underneath stuff. If yoou only throw the deep ball where your guy can get it there isn't great risk. Sure people think the West Coast is safer but look at Luck and tell me he had less interceptions as a function of passes than Newton who supposedly had a slump.

[CRA]

Vertical passing attacks are not risky by design. If your quarterback has a strong accurate arm and throws a great deep ball sending a guy deep like Ginn opens up the high percentage underneath stuff. If yoou only throw the deep ball where your guy can get it there isn't great risk. Sure people think the West Coast is safer but look at Luck and tell me he had less interceptions as a function of passes than Newton who supposedly had a slump.

Deep vertical passes by nature and design are more difficult and risky. Passes are tougher.

It is why you can put the same QB in two schemes and what is deemed a a good target completion percentage changes. If the passes weren't more risky....there would be no difference in what the target completion percentage should be.

[panthers55]

Deep vertical passes by nature and design are more difficult and risky. Passes are tougher.

It is why you can put the same QB in two schemes and what is deemed a a good target completion percentage changes. If the passes weren't more risky....there would be no difference in what the target completion percentage should be.

That assumes that you are using the same quarterback in 2 different schemes.  Quarterbacks vary by skill set.  If you put a guy like Dalton in a vertical passing offense and then compare it to his performance in a west coast offense  you would likely see a higher completion percentage  and fewer picks with the WCO  but how much of that is because he throws a better short and intermediate pass than he does a deep ball.  Would Cam do better in a vertical passing attack or a WCO.  If you look at his deep ball versus his crossing pattern you would notice he throws a better deep ball.  So what is riskier for Dalton might not be for Newton. Sweeping statements or generalities might apply to something in general but not to a specific situation like the Panthers. And isn't this a Panthers forum and isn't this about whether we should run a conservative offense or not??

[CRA]

That assumes that you are using the same quarterback in 2 different schemes.  Quarterbacks vary by skill set.  If you put a guy like Dalton in a vertical passing offense and then compare it to his performance in a west coast offense  you would likely see a higher completion percentage  and fewer picks with the WCO  but how much of that is because he throws a better short and intermediate pass than he does a deep ball.  Would Cam do better in a vertical passing attack or a WCO.  If you look at his deep ball versus his crossing pattern you would notice he throws a better deep ball.  So what is riskier for Dalton might not be for Newton. Sweeping statements or generalities might apply to something in general but not to a specific situation like the Panthers. And isn't this a Panthers forum and isn't this about whether we should run a conservative offense or not??

Cam definately fits a vertical pass offense....even though he fits it....IMO he is attempting riskier passes vs someone who fits a WCO. But we can agree to disagree and get more on point.

We have Cam Newton...therefore no, we should not be running a very conservative offense bc you are then limiting what by far the biggest offensive weapon you have can do.

[panthers55]

Cam definately fits a vertical pass offense....even though he fits it....IMO he is attempting riskier passes vs someone who fits a WCO. But we can agree to disagree and get more on point.

We have Cam Newton...therefore no, we should not be running a very conservative offense bc you are then limiting what by far the biggest offensive weapon you have can do.

I would argue that the offense we  ran the second part of the year was decidedly more conservative than the one we ran the first half of the year.  He did better in a more conservative offense.  Instead of being limited it allowed him to .be more effective particularly as a passer as the running game came  together. 

[Chimera]

So what are you saying Belding, you want us to revamp the linebacker position? Who do you want us to draft to spend more picks on in anticipation of this imaginary running game revival? Or maybe we can put Beason and Davis on a bulking program?

sorry, not sure what I said to give you that idea.

Offenses are faster now, to take advantage of pro-passing rules. To keep up, many defenses around the NFL have traded size for speed. Hurney was especially notorious for that. As offenses become more one-dimensional, so do defenses. My implied message is simple: Take advantage of their singular focus.

Not like KC or J'ville, who run because that's basically all they are able to do, but to wear them down.

Remember the Atlanta game where Atlanta only ran like 6 offensive plays in the first half? That's how to properly play a conservative offense.

[The Huddler]

someone please pmmne anyone who follows the movement.    anyone pm mw who will be up

[CRA]

I would argue that the offense we ran the second part of the year was decidedly more conservative than the one we ran the first half of the year. He did better in a more conservative offense. Instead of being limited it allowed him to .be more effective particularly as a passer as the running game came together.

Well, Cam didn't do less....he passed and ran more the second half of the season.

I don't think the run game ever came together. . Saints games distort the reality of what was our run game. Last game of the season greatly altered the views of many

[panthers55]

Well, Cam didn't do less....he passed and ran more the second half of the season.

I don't think the run game ever came together. . Saints games distort the reality of what was our run game. Last game of the season greatly altered the views of many

You are the one who said a conservative offense would hurt. So if we agree that the second half offense was more conservative and most people here would,  and like you said Cam passed and ran more effectively, then you prove my point.

[CRA]

You are the one who said a conservative offense would hurt. So if we agree that the second half offense was more conservative and most people here would, and like you said Cam passed and ran more effectively, then you prove my point.

I don't think we were more conservative, run game never game together (not RBs). Less read option than the first 4 games doesn't equal more conservative IMO.

I said Cam simply passed and ran more in the 2nd half. More attempts of both. He did more. . He also was simply better.

[panthers55]

I don't think we were more conservative, run game never game together (not RBs). Less read option than the first 4 games doesn't equal more conservative IMO.

I said Cam simply passed and ran more in the 2nd half. More attempts of both. He did more. . He also was simply better.

A defintion of conservative is traditional and less risky. Going with what is proven.  How many times has everyone said we ran a more traditional offense in the second half. Plus as Zod defined it, the focus is on maximizing time of possession and reducing turnovers. Look at the stats, in the second half we did both.  So yeah the numbers say we were more conservative.

 

The problem for you is that you think conservative is not going to let Cam be better and the truth is it already has.  Going to more play action and dumping the ball off opens up the deep passing game which is what Newton does best. I haven't checked but I suspect we had fewer three and outs and better drives which allowed for more overall plays of which everyone benefited including Newton in the second half. 

[CRA]

A defintion of conservative is traditional and less risky. Going with what is proven. How many times has everyone said we ran a more traditional offense in the second half. Plus as Zod defined it, the focus is on maximizing time of possession and reducing turnovers. Look at the stats, in the second half we did both. So yeah the numbers say we were more conservative.

The problem for you is that you think conservative is not going to let Cam be better and the truth is it already has. Going to more play action and dumping the ball off opens up the deep passing game which is what Newton does best. I haven't checked but I suspect we had fewer three and outs and better drives which allowed for more overall plays of which everyone benefited including Newton in the second half.

Cam wasnt asked to make less risky throws or run less.

You can argue we operated a higher percentage out of "traditional" packages....but that isn't less risky. I would easily argue asking Cam to line up under C, play action, turn his back to the D, behind our OL..... was every bit if not more risky than operating out of a shotgun with a read seeing everything coming.

We got better for a variety of reason. I wouldn't call it going less conservative. Also, Rivera got LESS conservative in the 2nd half in big moments. He started to learn from his conservative game management in big moments

[rainwater]

The Panthers were balanced last year.  The problem is the running game outside of Cam was not effective at all.  That is what they are trying to focus on improving this year.  Being able to get a 3rd and 2 without relying on a shotgun QB sneak every time is going to make the Panthers tougher to defend.  It isn't about being "conservative".  It is about being more versatile.