I will never forgive Ron Rivera for two things.

[teeray]

I'll forgive him for everything if we win the Super Bowl. Heck, if he slept with my wife I would forgive him if we win the Super Bowl (although I would settle for free season tickets. Actually I would settle for free tickets to one game)

[Cyberjag]

So what was Coughlins excuse last season? I'll take my answer off the air thanks..

 

He had an average year, which for him is only 9 wins.  I think that Giants fans forgive him though, as he's been to the playoffs 5 times there and won two Super Bowls.

[2jakefansinva]

So RR is the problem for all our losses and bad play.....................

 

so why all the threads about how bad our DB's are and that our WR's suck ????

[iamhubby1]

IMO, you would be hard pressed to find many Panther fans that truly believe Rivera is a great coach at this time.

However, there are plenty of us who do believe he is getting better. This team played well at the end of the year. It played damm good football. On every level. And we are even better this year.

He took a team that was bereft of talent, and has made it into a team that many believe is ready to challenge the rest of the league. That is all that really matters. Where we are now. Not what we were, but where we are going.

I don't think any of you will complain if we have a great year. But I do know a poo ton of you will complain if we don't. Expectations are high for a reason. Like it or not. We just may be as good as we all believe we are.

Some will harp and complain no matter what. But hey, this is the interwebz. You have to take the good with the ridiculous. Us optimists are ready for the good times. The rest of you will miss out waiting for the perfect storm. Fans, you gotta love em'.

[MHS831]

All that talent from a 1-15 team?  Rivera actually inherited more pro-bowlers.  If you're arguing for Rivera over Fox, you should try and avoid comparing their first two years and maybe focus on how much info they give out in pressers. :)

 

 

Actually, I thought of that when I posted it, knowing that someone would pick up on that.   But we lacked a qb and a dependable rb--look at the young talent he had:

 

Steve Smith

Julius Peppers

Mike Minter

Ken Rucker

Dan Morgan

Brenson Buckner

John Kasay

Mark Fields

Will WItherspoon

Brad Hoover

Mushin Muhammad

Deon Grant

 

Add a few free agents like Stephen Davis, Ricky Proehl, and Jake Delhomme--not high end talent at that time--and draft picks Jordan Gross and Ricky Manning Jr etc. and the rest is history.

[Mvp2014]

Ken rucker huh

[Cyberjag]

He means Mike Rucker.  And he forgot Kris Jenkins.

 

Peppers was a rookie, FWIW.  And how many of those guys had made the pro bowl before Fox got here?

 

Contrast that with Beason, Gross, a Veteran Smith, LaFell (who's stats are identical to Moose's), Kalil, Gamble, Williams, Stewart, Johnson, Hardy, etc...

 

Bottom line is, neither coach had a bare cupboard to work with.  Fox just did more with his early.

[panthers55]

He means Mike Rucker.  And he forgot Kris Jenkins.

 

Peppers was a rookie, FWIW.  And how many of those guys had made the pro bowl before Fox got here?

 

Contrast that with Beason, Gross, a Veteran Smith, LaFell (who's stats are identical to Moose's), Kalil, Gamble, Williams, Stewart, Johnson, Hardy, etc...

 

Bottom line is, neither coach had a bare cupboard to work with.  Fox just did more with his early.

Actually I would take the 2003 team over the 2012 team without a doubt. Newton may end up being a much better talent but Jake in 2003 was magic. The whole defense was better than the 2012 defense across the board with the exception of Luke. Special teams with Smitty and Kasay and Sauerbrun versus Gano Adams and Norman no comparison. Do you really want to stack up Smith Moose and Proehl and say Smiity now and LaFell and whoever else were even close? You could make a case the running game was about the same. The roided up offensive line in 2003 was much better than the patchwork line of 2012. You could argue that the DEs were equal but the DTs were not and give the TE nod to Olsen. But Fox had a lot more talent than Rivera did in year 2 and Fox didnt have the injuries. No you would have to say that Fox in year 2 had more talent than Rivera did in year 2.

[Delhommey]

Yet another thing the nation media is wrong about! Good thing Ron loves haters!!!

[Icege]

Totally thought that this was going to be about being molested and defecated on by Rivera

[panthers55]

Totally thought that this was going to be about being molested and defecated on by Rivera

You must run with a rough crowd. Lol

[ladypanther]

Never is a big word.

 

For me......looking forward to this season.

[Cyberjag]

Actually I would take the 2003 team over the 2012 team without a doubt. Newton may end up being a much better talent but Jake in 2003 was magic. The whole defense was better than the 2012 defense across the board with the exception of Luke. Special teams with Smitty and Kasay and Sauerbrun versus Gano Adams and Norman no comparison. Do you really want to stack up Smith Moose and Proehl and say Smiity now and LaFell and whoever else were even close? You could make a case the running game was about the same. The roided up offensive line in 2003 was much better than the patchwork line of 2012. You could argue that the DEs were equal but the DTs were not and give the TE nod to Olsen. But Fox had a lot more talent than Rivera did in year 2 and Fox didnt have the injuries. No you would have to say that Fox in year 2 had more talent than Rivera did in year 2.

 

Fox's first year was 2002, not 2003.  I would take that 2003 team over most also. Fox/Hurney assembled several key pieces together for that squad together, including Jake, Proehl, and Davis. 

 

I'm not entirely sure I would agree with you on the line.  The one Rivera inherited had two pro-bowlers, Gross and Kalil, while the 2002 line had Todd Steussie and that's it (and he was years past his pro-bowl days).  Gross was added as a rookie in 2003, not 2002, so again he's another piece that Fox/Hurney put in place.  As far as defense, CJ and GH are not on the same level together as JP and Rucker, but Peppers was Fox's version of Cam Newton (just on D).  I would say that CJ and GH are on a par with Rucker and Jenkins as far as talent.  Had we gotten a Ndamukong Suh instead of Cam (consider this a Peppers analogy), you probably would have seen one of them in the pro bowl last year.

 

Both teams had talent, both had holes.  The 2011 unit, however, had talent that included more pro-bowlers.  It's a shame that Rivera/Hurney weren't able to build it into a great team as fast as Fox/Hurney were able to with the 2002 team. 

 

Maybe this year, huh? :)

[Ship]

You're talking about a team of past pro bowlers who are old or injured vs a team of future pro bowlers. A year away from blowing up. Rivera has had to replace the scraps fox left behind. I'd also argue that fox didn't turn any of his players into pro bowlers but Rivera is growing his guys into them, the best example being Greg hardy, who if fox was still here would probably be cut and a nobody. Fox inherited one of our best all time drafts, including Steve smith, who had to force the issue to get pt at wr. Fox was a lot luckier than Rivera and he was starting as a coach in a time period that was still conducive to his play style. He could err on the conservative side and still be successful, Rivera doesn't have that luxury.