Tight Ends - Ton o Talent, will we use it?

[mantal]

King is the ultimate Red Zone tight end, throw it to him in the end zone, he'll catch it. That's what he did at Va Tech and he was great at it. He can do it on this level as well, but guess what? He's only been thrown the ball in the end zone one time in all the years he's been here, (he caught it).

[Snake]

The fact is Delhomme threw to all three TE's last year with mixed results. I just hope his QB coach helps with accuracy not who he is throwing the ball to cause if he is as bad as last year we might need to just run the ball and forget who he is throwing too.

[panthers55]

The fact is Delhomme threw to all three TE's last year with mixed results. I just hope his QB coach helps with accuracy not who he is throwing the ball to cause if he is as bad as last year we might need to just run the ball and forget who he is throwing too.

Are you looking for an argument or feel a need to make the same the old tired statements to see who bites. Welcome to 2009.

[ed bell]

Opening up the offense is what the team has needed for some time in my opinion.

Considering the developing run game that could become downright dominant, why would the offense have a pressing need to "open up"? The whole point of having a dominant run game is clock management, tiring out the defense, controlling field position and eventually providing easy opportunities to pass. Considering the progress the run game has had recently, I doubt the coaches are going to "open things up'.

[QuasiYoda]

King is the ultimate Red Zone tight end, throw it to him in the end zone, he'll catch it. That's what he did at Va Tech and he was great at it. He can do it on this level as well, but guess what? He's only been thrown the ball in the end zone one time in all the years he's been here, (he caught it).

Didn't know that.

Good to know

Thanks

[panthers55]

King is a fine blocking TE but as far as a complete tight end he really doesn't stretch the field and doesn't make teams gameplan for him at all. Most teams give him the short pass and then just tackle him short of the first down. He had 21 catches but only 8 first downs. Given he is a third down option that is not very good. Compare that to Jarrett who had 10 catches and 9 went for first downs or Smith who had 78 catches and 59 first downs. Even Rosario was better with 18 catches and 11 first downs.

Those are the facts. I wish he were a stud but he just isn't. He is a good blocker but little else. Hopefully Barnidge can develop into a receiving end or we will continue to have little production out of that position.

[rayzor]

The fact is Delhomme threw to all three TE's last year with mixed results. I just hope his QB coach helps with accuracy not who he is throwing the ball to cause if he is as bad as last year we might need to just run the ball and forget who he is throwing too.

barely. he threw to barnidge once against oakland.

[carolinarolls]

Considering the developing run game that could become downright dominant, why would the offense have a pressing need to "open up"? The whole point of having a dominant run game is clock management, tiring out the defense, controlling field position and eventually providing easy opportunities to pass. Considering the progress the run game has had recently, I doubt the coaches are going to "open things up'.

Opening up the offense does not mean making dumb decisions and being careless with the football. It means that maybe we can learn to find a back out of the backfield, run a screen pass, or find TE's that settle into a soft spot in the zone for 5-6 yards on 1st down. You are right that we want to control clock and do it as conservatively as we can but in the last several seasons our limited offense gives a defense too much opportunity to make us one dimensional. They double or triple Steve Smith and then make our run win it for us or the stack the box and make Jake throw all day. If we can "open up the offense" and utilize the intermediate game to keep defenses honest we can do nothing but help ourselves by doing so. It sounds easier than it is but with three potentially good TE's on the roster and adding players like Goodson in the draft, I think Davidson may have convinced Fox that he can run an offense that can mix in some of those not so flashy or powerful offensive strategies that really keep opposing DC's scratching their heads. Not to mention keeping linebackers and safeties who are instinctively sound back on their heels a bit.

[Phoenaxe]

Opening up the offense does not mean making dumb decisions and being careless with the football. It means that maybe we can learn to find a back out of the backfield, run a screen pass, or find TE's that settle into a soft spot in the zone for 5-6 yards on 1st down. You are right that we want to control clock and do it as conservatively as we can but in the last several seasons our limited offense gives a defense too much opportunity to make us one dimensional. They double or triple Steve Smith and then make our run win it for us or the stack the box and make Jake throw all day. If we can "open up the offense" and utilize the intermediate game to keep defenses honest we can do nothing but help ourselves by doing so. It sounds easier than it is but with three potentially good TE's on the roster and adding players like Goodson in the draft, I think Davidson may have convinced Fox that he can run an offense that can mix in some of those not so flashy or powerful offensive strategies that really keep opposing DC's scratching their heads. Not to mention keeping linebackers and safeties who are instinctively sound back on their heels a bit.

I agree! Opposing DC's know what we are gonna do. Run it or pass it to Smith or Muhammad. If we mixed it up more with some screens to RB's and more passes to Tight Ends it would keep defenses more honest. This would definitely help our run game and make life easier for our receivers, because if they stacked the box or double/triple Smith we could make them pay. We would get a lot more 1st downs as well.

[mantal]

King is a fine blocking TE but as far as a complete tight end he really doesn't stretch the field and doesn't make teams gameplan for him at all. Most teams give him the short pass and then just tackle him short of the first down. He had 21 catches but only 8 first downs. Given he is a third down option that is not very good. Compare that to Jarrett who had 10 catches and 9 went for first downs or Smith who had 78 catches and 59 first downs. Even Rosario was better with 18 catches and 11 first downs.

Those are the facts. I wish he were a stud but he just isn't. He is a good blocker but little else. Hopefully Barnidge can develop into a receiving end or we will continue to have little production out of that position.

That's very thorough but then? What downs were all these passes on? If ALL of them were third downs, you've got some good information, if not it's nothing more than garbage. Jeff King is a very good possession tight end who doesn't seem to get much yardage after the catch, just a percentage of a yard under Algie Crumpler, who, oh wait, is considered a milestone for a tight end in the NFL.

Not trying to antagonize, just messing with you, no offense meant...

[Fireball77]

Almost half of King's receptions were on 2nd down last year. For his career, the most receptions he has are on second down also.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7904/situational;_ylt=AsHRl4LsUdKt9HxrA_eLN1j.uLYF

[rayzor]

many people are under the delusion that we controlled the clock when we were running so much but the truth of the matter is we weren't. we were scoring a lot and getting a lot of yardage (7th in points and 10th in yardage) but we were 21st in time of possession with 29:28.

the problem was williams and stewart were running down the field and into the endzone just too fast. the run and gun offense that we have was very good at getting down field. it might be that doing more in the way of passing might just slow things up a bit for us and give us more control of the clock.

[Fireball77]

Lombardi had a pretty decent article about that during the season. He said the Cats were mainly a big play type of offense both running and passing. I'll see if I can find it and link it.

Wasn't an article, just a short blurb.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/national-football-post-diner-news-81.html

What I love about the Panthers is that people talk about their ability to run the ball, but they are more than a run team. They are the No. 1scoring team in the NFL the past eight weeks and they are third in big plays. This is not a running offense; this is a big play-offense. And the fact they are 27th in the NFL in ball control tells an important tale: They don’t just run the ball, they make big runs. If the Giants do not miss tackles Sunday, they will not give up big runs. And if they can stop Smith from making big plays, they will have a better chance to win the game. The key to beating the Panthers is not stopping the run; the key is stopping the big play. The Broncos played a short-yardage defense in the middle of the field and couldn’t stop them from breaking tackles. The Giants are not a great tackling team. They rank 20th in yards allowed after the catch and are the kind of team the Panthers feast on for big plays.

[panthers55]

That's very thorough but then? What downs were all these passes on? If ALL of them were third downs, you've got some good information, if not it's nothing more than garbage. Jeff King is a very good possession tight end who doesn't seem to get much yardage after the catch, just a percentage of a yard under Algie Crumpler, who, oh wait, is considered a milestone for a tight end in the NFL.

Not trying to antagonize, just messing with you, no offense meant...

That was a legitimate question.

He had 9 catches on first down- 4 went for first downs, He had 10 catches on second down and 4 went for first downs. He had 2 catches on third down and 0 went for first downs.

Compared to Rosario who had 10 receptions on first down with 3 first downs, 3 receptions on second down all of which went for first downs, and 4 receptions on third down all of which went for first downs.

From that it looks like Rosario rather than King was considered the primary third down TE and was 7 for 7 making first downs on second and third down. King was 4 of 12.

As for YAC 3.9 is actually not that good And for the record Crumpler's YAC in 2008 was 5.8 . How about comparing him to Vernon Davis who had an 8.2 YAC or even Chris Cooley who had a 5.7.

How does 3.9 compare? He is tied with 5 others at 53rd position.

I know you are a Jeff King guy and frankly I still have high hopes he can become a force. Every year he looks the best in training camp. I can't really explain why in a game he has trouble with separation or getting open or running after the catch.