Hornets (Bobcats) Interested In DeMarcus Cousins

[TheMaulClaw]

All those teams had superstars that they drafted themselves before the FA's came into play. Rondo and Pierce, Duncan and Parker, Wade, Lopez...ext...

 

NY is a large market, Miami is well Miami, LA is a large market, Boston is a large market.  Charlotte isn't going to work like NY/ NJ, LA, Boston or Miami. It's going to have to work like OKC or Indiana were they've pretty much drafted their whole teams minus a last key player or two. 

 

 

 

Edit: To add to this, you need to be patient as a NBA fan today. It takes time to build a team, adding FA to the Bobcats/Hornets roster right now would seriously ruin everything they're trying to build. This teams success is directly tied to getting lucky in next years draft. They have to hit a home run in the 2014 draft with at least two of the three draft picks. Then you've got a young nucleus that you can add FA and bench pieces to. 

Point is all those teams had balance between veterans and young players.  They didn't put all their stock into just young guys, or older guys.  We're not going to be able to draft pretty much a brand new starting five between this year and next, and expect to be a playoff team by the time the inaugural Hornets season rolls around.

 

I think all of us as Bobcats/Hornets fans can say that we've all developed a bit of patience.  In fact maybe too much.  Rebuilding or not, in the past two years we've been pretty much the worst team in NBA history.  To think what OKC has done can easily be replicated considering they're cited as the NBA's premier small market business model, is a bit naive.   The OKC model revolves around the idea of continuity.....in players, and staff.   We've had zero continuity, we have no idea how are roster is going to shape up next year.   Thus far, even though I do have faith in Jordan, we have been a revolving door, and a farm team.  We've had some good players in the Bobcats organization if you look back. Enough players in fact, that if we could have kept continuity, we would be competitive in the playoffs year in and year out.  Who cares what seed, you can win if you get in.  

 

Point is this, every time Cho gets trigger happy with coaches he sets us back another two seasons. Our original plan was to get young players and develop them.  If we've could have had continuity in staff we would probably be in stage 3 of our plan, instead of a constant stage 1.   

[thatlookseasy]

Point is all those teams had balance between veterans and young players.  They didn't put all their stock into just young guys, or older guys.  We're not going to be able to draft pretty much a brand new starting five between this year and next, and expect to be a playoff team by the time the inaugural Hornets season rolls around.

 

I think all of us as Bobcats/Hornets fans can say that we've all developed a bit of patience.  In fact maybe too much.  Rebuilding or not, in the past two years we've been pretty much the worst team in NBA history.  To think what OKC has done can easily be replicated considering they're cited as the NBA's premier small market business model, is a bit naive.   The OKC model revolves around the idea of continuity.....in players, and staff.   We've had zero continuity, we have no idea how are roster is going to shape up next year.   Thus far, even though I do have faith in Jordan, we have been a revolving door, and a farm team.  We've had some good players in the Bobcats organization if you look back. Enough players in fact, that if we could have kept continuity, we would be competitive in the playoffs year in and year out.  Who cares what seed, you can win if you get in.  

 

Point is this, every time Cho gets trigger happy with coaches he sets us back another two seasons. Our original plan was to get young players and develop them.  If we've could have had continuity in staff we would probably be in stage 3 of our plan, instead of a constant stage 1.

Continuity is overrated in the NBA- 3 teams have won titles since 2000 with a new head coach. You need good players to win, and even though this team was in the playoffs a few years ago, keeping them together would not have been a good move long term. A team starting Felton, Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Boris Diaw, and Tyson Chandler would possibly make the playoffs, but this isnt the NFL. Making the playoffs doesnt make you a title contender, and 7/8 seeds dont make the finals.

The team didnt have a lot of talent, but more importantly they had virtually no assets to trade for better talent and no cap space to work with either. Keeping the team together would have only made both problems worse- you would be left with an aging team barely making the playoffs while paying the luxury tax and losing money every season.

The mistake wasnt trying to start over and rebuild, the mistake was not doing it sooner. The team only committed to this plan about 2 1/2 seasons ago when they traded Wallace and then Jackson, and since then we have landed some promising young players and finally this summer have cap space to work with. Now the important thing is not to squander this position by wasting all our cap space on expensive free agents like the Pistons did a few years ago

[TheMaulClaw]

Continuity is overrated in the NBA- 3 teams have won titles since 2000 with a new head coach. You need good players to win, and even though this team was in the playoffs a few years ago, keeping them together would not have been a good move long term. A team starting Felton, Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Boris Diaw, and Tyson Chandler would possibly make the playoffs, but this isnt the NFL. Making the playoffs doesnt make you a title contender, and 7/8 seeds dont make the finals.

The team didnt have a lot of talent, but more importantly they had virtually no assets to trade for better talent and no cap space to work with either. Keeping the team together would have only made both problems worse- you would be left with an aging team barely making the playoffs while paying the luxury tax and losing money every season.

The mistake wasnt trying to start over and rebuild, the mistake was not doing it sooner. The team only committed to this plan about 2 1/2 seasons ago when they traded Wallace and then Jackson, and since then we have landed some promising young players and finally this summer have cap space to work with. Now the important thing is not to squander this position by wasting all our cap space on expensive free agents like the Pistons did a few years ago

All the team really needed to do to add to that roster was try to draft well, and keep the core intact until they could get the Diop and Carroll contracts off the books.   Continuity is not overrated by the way, in the NBA.  It's a big reason why good teams turn into dynasties.  You can't win when you have as much staff turnover as we do.   

[carpanfan96]

Point is all those teams had balance between veterans and young players.  They didn't put all their stock into just young guys, or older guys.  We're not going to be able to draft pretty much a brand new starting five between this year and next, and expect to be a playoff team by the time the inaugural Hornets season rolls around.

 

I think all of us as Bobcats/Hornets fans can say that we've all developed a bit of patience.  In fact maybe too much.  Rebuilding or not, in the past two years we've been pretty much the worst team in NBA history.  To think what OKC has done can easily be replicated considering they're cited as the NBA's premier small market business model, is a bit naive.   The OKC model revolves around the idea of continuity.....in players, and staff.   We've had zero continuity, we have no idea how are roster is going to shape up next year.   Thus far, even though I do have faith in Jordan, we have been a revolving door, and a farm team.  We've had some good players in the Bobcats organization if you look back. Enough players in fact, that if we could have kept continuity, we would be competitive in the playoffs year in and year out.  Who cares what seed, you can win if you get in.  

 

Point is this, every time Cho gets trigger happy with coaches he sets us back another two seasons. Our original plan was to get young players and develop them.  If we've could have had continuity in staff we would probably be in stage 3 of our plan, instead of a constant stage 1.   

 

 

Those teams were able to get Veterans because they were

 

A. A large market team or 

B. Already had a superstar on the team. 

 

 

I never said they would build a starting lineup from this draft and next years, but they have the pieces to get close to it and then add a big time FA piece to the mix. It isn't going to work the other way around, the Bobcat's / Hornets need one of the 2014 draft picks to be a top 3-4 pick so they can get a potential superstar. 

 

 

The original hornets had multiple top 4-5 draft picks on the roster before they started getting successful. 

 

Kendall Gill, LJ, Alonzo,  JR reid and Rex Chapman through 91-92. That's 5 lottery picks that were on the team up to at least 91-92.  

 

It's just how you have to build a team in a small market. You've got to get lucky with the ping pong balls, you've got to get lucky with the players and you've got to do it for a couple of drafts in a row. Then you have a nucleolus that you can build around to be successful. 

[TheMaulClaw]

Those teams were able to get Veterans because they were

 

A. A large market team or 

B. Already had a superstar on the team. 

 

 

I never said they would build a starting lineup from this draft and next years, but they have the pieces to get close to it and then add a big time FA piece to the mix. It isn't going to work the other way around, the Bobcat's / Hornets need one of the 2014 draft picks to be a top 3-4 pick so they can get a potential superstar. 

 

 

The original hornets had multiple top 4-5 draft picks on the roster before they started getting successful. 

 

Kendall Gill, LJ, Alonzo,  JR reid and Rex Chapman through 91-92. That's 5 lottery picks that were on the team up to at least 91-92.  

 

It's just how you have to build a team in a small market. You've got to get lucky with the ping pong balls, you've got to get lucky with the players and you've got to do it for a couple of drafts in a row. Then you have a nucleolus that you can build around to be successful. 

Listen, I think we both just naturally disagree.   Initially, I didn't think Cho's plan was bad, but he's missed on all his lottery picks.  Which tells me, that if we want to win more, we need to get some players however we can.   We're not a shoe in to be at least a 3rd seed even if Cho's plan gets executed perfectly.  Players play, not the math.   If you get a chance to get a solid big rotation, then you get it.  No team has ever won poo if they didn't have a good 4-5 combination.   We've never had good interior play which is why we're so inconsistent.     Whether were  looking to actually use three 1st round picks next year or not, the first priority should be to have a solid post presence that we can count on for at least 3 years via draft, free agency, or trade.   In this case, it just happens to be free agency or trade. 

 

A note to all of the fans: Chances are...we're probably not going to go from not in the playoffs, to NBA champs the year we get the Hornets back.   Especially if we're willing to waste 5 years "developing".    That's not good enough for me, we need to improve today.  We've sucked for too long.  Get this team in the playoffs, then we can figure out how to take this to the next level.  Oh yeah Bobcats,....  don't invest into bad contracts just to get to the next level, just find the right people and offer to pay them what they're worth.

[carpanfan96]

Listen, I think we both just naturally disagree.   Initially, I didn't think Cho's plan was bad, but he's missed on all his lottery picks.  Which tells me, that if we want to win more, we need to get some players however we can.   We're not a shoe in to be at least a 3rd seed even if Cho's plan gets executed perfectly.  Players play, not the math.   If you get a chance to get a solid big rotation, then you get it.  No team has ever won poo if they didn't have a good 4-5 combination.   We've never had good interior play which is why we're so inconsistent.     Whether were  looking to actually use three 1st round picks next year or not, the first priority should be to have a solid post presence that we can count on for at least 3 years via draft, free agency, or trade.   In this case, it just happens to be free agency or trade. 

 

A note to all of the fans: Chances are...we're probably not going to go from not in the playoffs, to NBA champs the year we get the Hornets back.   Especially if we're willing to waste 5 years "developing".    That's not good enough for me, we need to improve today.  We've sucked for too long.  Get this team in the playoffs, then we can figure out how to take this to the next level.  Oh yeah Bobcats,....  don't invest into bad contracts just to get to the next level, just find the right people and offer to pay them what they're worth.

 

 

To attract even a decent 4/5 the Bobcats will need to offer a borderline 10m a season guy a 13-14m a season contract, it's just the cards they have right now. There's no one on the team or that's going to be on the team the next season to attract big time talent for a reasonable price. In today's NBA you either overpay or you have superstars that attract other talent. 

 

There's not a lot of FA talent at the 4/5 unless you go the young, slightly unproven route "still overpaying for the talent though" or go the RFA route and not only pay a ton of money but give up valuable draft picks. The best bet is someone like JJ Hickson at PF in this current FA class. It's going to take 10m a season to get him in Charlotte. Is he worth that to you?

 

I'm don't disagreeing that the Bobcats haven't sucked for a long time, they have. Cho just started though and you can't say he's missed his draft picks yet. MKG is just 20, Bismack is 20, Kemba is a young and upcoming PG. They have plenty of growing up to do, but they were picked with the intentions of them developing while the Bobcats got worse to build assets. 

 

This team needs the 2014 draft to build a team from, they lack so much talent it's not funny. Cho has to nail the next two drafts and get a key player in FA over the next 2-3 years. It might be year 2 of the Hornets in Charlotte before this team is even close to sniffing the playoff's. It's a shitty hand to be dealt for sure, but it's an issue with the NBA and it's salary cap and revenue sharing system. 

[ECUPantherFan]

Dismantling the 2010 playoff team was a terrible move. Trading Gerald Wallace for basically nothing was another terrible move. Bobcats fans at the time agreed with it, saying "We don't want to settle for the 7 or 8 seed every year." That rationale always blew my mind. Would you rather win 7 games one year, and 21 the next? The 7 seed looks pretty damn good now, huh? Idiots.

[Zaximus]

Yeah making the playoffs period gives you some kind of chance, your team could always turn the heat on.

 

Hickson, Millsap, Jefferson, you pay what it takes.  Pay a premium but nothing super crazy.  We've been paying Tyrus and Diop like 20 mill together a season lol. 

[carpanfan96]

Dismantling the 2010 playoff team was a terrible move. Trading Gerald Wallace for basically nothing was another terrible move. Bobcats fans at the time agreed with it, saying "We don't want to settle for the 7 or 8 seed every year." That rationale always blew my mind. Would you rather win 7 games one year, and 21 the next? The 7 seed looks pretty damn good now, huh? Idiots.

 

 

Ummm, those were great moves. The team had no room to grow as a team, they had no way out from the cap mess.  The team was at best a borderline 7/8 seed that was aging rapidly. Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler wanted even more money to resign which would've forced the club further over the Luxury tax. Oh, not to mention Fans weren't coming out to the games so the team was losing money left and right. 

 

Oh and they couldn't score consistently at all either. 

 

Because of the silly notation of not supporting them til they changed the name leading to low attendance caused that team to be broken apart. 

 

So let's recap as to why they were broken apart.

 

 

 

1. Felton and Chanlder wanted more money, team was already against the cap paying luxury tax.

 

2. Jackson and Wallace were aging rapidly and becoming shells of their former selves just after the team was put together.

 

3. Fans weren't supporting the product and was costing the team major money to field even a decent team.

 

4. Talent level wise, it was just a borderline .500 ball club. 

 

 

 

 

They got tons of assets off of the only two movable pieces on the club to help start over. 

[carpanfan96]

Yeah making the playoffs period gives you some kind of chance, your team could always turn the heat on.

 

Hickson, Millsap, Jefferson, you pay what it takes.  Pay a premium but nothing super crazy.  We've been paying Tyrus and Diop like 20 mill together a season lol. 

 

 

Hickson is the only one out of that bunch worth the mess and overpaying. At least you have a chance of him getting better and improving into the over payed contract.  I wouldn't mind the move, myself. He in no way improves the club by even 3 wins his first year here. In 2014 though after some chemsitry develops he should be a nice 2nd or 3rd option

[TheMaulClaw]

To attract even a decent 4/5 the Bobcats will need to offer a borderline 10m a season guy a 13-14m a season contract, it's just the cards they have right now. There's no one on the team or that's going to be on the team the next season to attract big time talent for a reasonable price. In today's NBA you either overpay or you have superstars that attract other talent. 

 

There's not a lot of FA talent at the 4/5 unless you go the young, slightly unproven route "still overpaying for the talent though" or go the RFA route and not only pay a ton of money but give up valuable draft picks. The best bet is someone like JJ Hickson at PF in this current FA class. It's going to take 10m a season to get him in Charlotte. Is he worth that to you?

 

I'm don't disagreeing that the Bobcats haven't sucked for a long time, they have. Cho just started though and you can't say he's missed his draft picks yet. MKG is just 20, Bismack is 20, Kemba is a young and upcoming PG. They have plenty of growing up to do, but they were picked with the intentions of them developing while the Bobcats got worse to build assets. 

 

This team needs the 2014 draft to build a team from, they lack so much talent it's not funny. Cho has to nail the next two drafts and get a key player in FA over the next 2-3 years. It might be year 2 of the Hornets in Charlotte before this team is even close to sniffing the playoff's. It's a shitty hand to be dealt for sure, but it's an issue with the NBA and it's salary cap and revenue sharing system. 

We started shedding bad contracts so we could invest them in better players.  If the market dictates a legitimate post threat dictates we shell out 13-14 mil then I guess we'd better do it.   The amount of money these players make isn't going to go down.   Another issue is by the time we get our three first rounders next year, soon on the horizon is resigning our first wave of drafted players who'll be looking to get paid more.   What's a new contract for Kemba or Bismack actually worth when the time comes?

[kman72]

Its been what 2 years since we traded Jackson and Wallace.

 

-For Wallace we received Portland and New Orleans 1st rd picks. Wallace is now shell of his former self. He has never developed a jump shot and his athleticism and style of play has dropped due to his age. 

 

-Jackson was traded for Maggette and opportunity to move up and draft Biz. Jackson was recently cut from Spurs prior to playoffs for ongoing issues between him and Pop.

 

- Jackson cont... We then moved Maggette for Ben Gordon and another 1st rd pick from Detroit

 

- Tyson Chandler struggled here and never played to the level he was before (New Orleans and after Mavs/Knicks) He was hurt and would have taken a 10mill contract and not really helped much here since we needed and still need scoring. We basically traded him for nothing (expiring non-Guaranteed of Dampier)     

 

- Felton had just been embarrassed by Jameer Nelson in a series sweep by magic. He went on to New York and showed much improvement with Amare to help feed the ball to. He averaged 17pts 9 ast until traded to Denevr in Carmello trade. He has never been same since never averaging over 11pts and 6 ast. He showed up in Portland out of shape and was eventually released. He is now back with the Knicks and has played well in spurts but never a player that has shown he can lead a team  

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

To add, no one came out to watch Tyson Chandler and Nazer Mohammed. That team was never going to catch the imagination of the fans.

These next two drafts and a suprise trade(Cousins) or free agent signing( Hickson, Al Jefferson) along with some winning will move some people to watch this team.

[TheMaulClaw]

Ummm, those were great moves. The team had no room to grow as a team, they had no way out from the cap mess.  The team was at best a borderline 7/8 seed that was aging rapidly. Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler wanted even more money to resign which would've forced the club further over the Luxury tax. Oh, not to mention Fans weren't coming out to the games so the team was losing money left and right. 

 

Oh and they couldn't score consistently at all either. 

 

Because of the silly notation of not supporting them til they changed the name leading to low attendance caused that team to be broken apart. 

 

So let's recap as to why they were broken apart.

 

 

 

1. Felton and Chanlder wanted more money, team was already against the cap paying luxury tax.

 

2. Jackson and Wallace were aging rapidly and becoming shells of their former selves just after the team was put together.

 

3. Fans weren't supporting the product and was costing the team major money to field even a decent team.

 

4. Talent level wise, it was just a borderline .500 ball club. 

 

 

 

 

They got tons of assets off of the only two movable pieces on the club to help start over. 

C'mon man.  The reason the fans weren't supporting the team during the course of that season was because that was the only year the Bobcats were any good, but by the time the Playoffs rolled around, it was a packed house.  I know that team at one point in the year won I think 11 straight stemming from late December into January.  If they would have kept their core intact and made the playoffs the following season attendance wouldn't be the problem it is even today. 

 

In retrospect we did the wise thing letting Felton walk, but we should have paid Chandler more.  The guy was the starting 5 the following year for the NBA champs.