Rosenthal's write-up on Cam Newton

[rayzor]

Can should be #1 hands down.

if we get into the playoffs he will be. he won't get much more respect until we get more wins.

[CarolinaCoolin]

How many yards would Cam have had his rookie season if he threw as much as Luck?

Probably 4800+

[nickzz]

Compare his play to Wilson and RGIII. The other two looked so much better.

 

I'd put Luck's play on par with Tannehill if you take away the major leadership ability. Tannehill looked really good at times too.

 

1.  i don't believe you actually think  that about tannehill. tannehill shouldn't be in the conversation with these guys just yet.

2. luck was asked to do much more than rg3 and wilson, arguably with less. his numbers show that.

[LinvilleGorge]

When I look at the young QBs, Cam and Luck are head and shoulders above the rest of the pack if I was a GM looking to build a team.  

 

Here are my concerns about the rest:

 

Kaepernick - What can he do if he's forced to be a pocket QB?  The sample size is just too small.  He's looked good in the pocket at times, but I want to see more sustained success.

 

Wilson - His size is still a huge concern.  Other than Drew Brees, there's not really another QB in the last 20 years or so to point to that has had sustained high level success at such a small size.  How will he hold up over the years taking hits at an NFL level?  What happens if he has to stay in the pocket and isn't allowed to roll out?  Will he consistently be able to find receivers of the linemen?

 

RG3 - Injuries, period.  Great arm, great athleticism, seems to be a natural leader, but two ACL reconstructions on the same knee?

 

If I had my pick, no homerism, I'd take them in this order:

 

1. Luck - Great pedigree, can make all the throws, sneaky athleticism, natural leader.

2. Cam - If you gave an NFL coach a blank sheet of paper and told him to design his ideal QB, he'd probably end up drawing up Cam Newton.  However, Cam still has some fundamental flaws (primarily a tendency to throw off of his back foot) that causes inconsistent accuracy and as much as we defend him, there are still questions about his sideline demeanor.  I really want to see him take a huge step forward in that area this season and see less sitting by himself with a towel on his head and more working with the coaches and/or talking with his OL and receivers while the defense is on the field.

3. Wilson - Seems to be a natural leader and gives his team a spark.  He can make all the throws and has good athleticism.  If he was a couple inches taller and 20# heavier, he'd be duking it out with the top two.

4. RG3 - He'd be right up there with the top two if he hadn't popped his ACL twice.  If I was a GM with my pick of the crop, that would be a HUGE concern for me.

5. Kaepernick - Sorry, I'm just not sold.  Great arm and athleticism, but Harbough is an offensive magician who made Alex Smith look legit.

[JawnyBlaze]

I read the article, and I think his analysis of Cam is pretty fair.  I don't think there's any sane argument for putting him behind Luck, RG3 or Kap other than "durrr their teams were better so that must mean the QBs were better".  So, in essence I mostly agree with his assessment of Cam, but I won't agree with his assessments of the three ranked higher.  They're going to be WAY too generous.  I thought the only QB that should even come close to being in Cam's league was Wilson, but that's just going off of Wilson's late season progress.

 

Luck is the only of the group that had as much responsibility as Cam, and I think he'll be close to Cam in the long run, but his rookie season wasn't as good as Cam's. 

 

RG3 is mostly a gimmick.  He's a good gimmick, but his throws and decision making aren't as good as Cam, Wilson or Luck.

 

Kap is a gimmick until proven otherwise. 

 

My biggest question when determining which QBs might be better than Cam is "would they succeed with the O-line and playcalling that Cam has had to deal with?"  The only one I think might, so far, is Wilson.

[rayzor]

btw, i do think the rankings are crap but to be expected until we win games.

 

its just hard to disagree with his write up.

[chef17]

I read the article, and I think his analysis of Cam is pretty fair.  I don't think there's any sane argument for putting him behind Luck, RG3 or Kap other than "durrr their teams were better so that must mean the QBs were better".  So, in essence I mostly agree with his assessment of Cam, but I won't agree with his assessments of the three ranked higher.  They're going to be WAY too generous.  I thought the only QB that should even come close to being in Cam's league was Wilson, but that's just going off of Wilson's late season progress.

 

Luck is the only of the group that had as much responsibility as Cam, and I think he'll be close to Cam in the long run, but his rookie season wasn't as good as Cam's. 

 

RG3 is mostly a gimmick.  He's a good gimmick, but his throws and decision making aren't as good as Cam, Wilson or Luck.

 

Kap is a gimmick until proven otherwise. 

 

My biggest question when determining which QBs might be better than Cam is "would they succeed with the O-line and playcalling that Cam has had to deal with?"  The only one I think might, so far, is Wilson.

 

What is this based on?

[JawnyBlaze]

What is this based on?

 

Watching him play.  I've got GamePass and I've watched MANY games of all the up-and-comers, as well as all Panther games at least 5 times. 

 

I also heard commentators say he's one of the most accurate passers, which is preposterous.  His accuracy is not bad, but I've seen him miss throws by a large margin as often as just about any other QB (excepting the obvious terrible ones like Sanchez).  He's certainly no Brees or Manning when it comes to accuracy.  He's good, but not in the upper tier of ANY category other than elusiveness.

[chef17]

Watching him play.  I've got GamePass and I've watched MANY games of all the up-and-comers, as well as all Panther games at least 5 times. 

 

I also heard commentators say he's one of the most accurate passers, which is preposterous.  His accuracy is not bad, but I've seen him miss throws by a large margin as often as just about any other QB (excepting the obvious terrible ones like Sanchez).  He's certainly no Brees or Manning when it comes to accuracy.  He's good, but not in the upper tier of ANY category other than elusiveness.

 

Is there something specific about his game to say his decision making is below theirs? Because when a guy is completing 65 % of his passes and throws an interception once every 77 attempts it would appear he has great decision making.

[JawnyBlaze]

Is there something specific about his game to say his decision making is below theirs? Because when a guy is completing 65 % of his passes and throws an interception once every 77 attempts it would appear he has great decision making.

 

It would appear so, that's why stats are misleading and why you have to watch the games to get the full picture.  Cam and Luck were throwing downfield a LOT more than RG3.  RG3's most common range of passes were high % passes, which is good coaching.  His coaches called the game to his strengths. 

 

I'm not saying RG3 is poor in any of these areas, he's just not as advanced as a lot of the media would have you believe (in my opinion).

 

In terms of rookie season/first starting season performance (how THEY did, not how their team did), I'd rank them Cam>Wilson>Luck>RG3>Kap.

[chef17]

It would appear so, that's why stats are misleading and why you have to watch the games to get the full picture.  Cam and Luck were throwing downfield a LOT more than RG3.  RG3's most common range of passes were high % passes, which is good coaching.  His coaches called the game to his strengths. 

 

I'm not saying RG3 is poor in any of these areas, he's just not as advanced as a lot of the media would have you believe (in my opinion).

 

So it wasn't that he necessarily displayed worse decision making, he just didn't display great decision making like the others? Not disagreeing or anything, just honestly looking for answers because I haven't really seen anyone say his decision making was worse than the others

[JawnyBlaze]

So it wasn't that he necessarily displayed worse decision making, he just didn't display great decision making like the others? Not disagreeing or anything, just honestly looking for answers because I haven't really seen anyone say his decision making was worse than the others

 

No, not saying his was bad, but he had his share of boneheaded decisions and throws even playing in a system that managed his decision making more than the others (similar to Wilson earlier in the year).  I didn't see the same kind of progress out of RG3 that I saw out of Wilson.

[JawnyBlaze]

Of course, this is all to my untrained (but seen a LOT of football over the years) eye.

[Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)]

1.  i don't believe you actually think  that about tannehill. tannehill shouldn't be in the conversation with these guys just yet.

2. luck was asked to do much more than rg3 and wilson, arguably with less. his numbers show that.

 

1. Did you watch Tannehill at all last year? Maybe I chose the right weeks to watch him, and sure his ceiling isn't likely as high, but he looked good.

 

2. The Colts had a cheese schedule. The Colts got better all around. The Colts had very good coaching. Luck had Reggie Wayne and T.Y Hilton to throw to. Wilson had a better defense, but had to work with an underachieving group of Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, and Doug Baldwin with a tougher schedule. RGIII had a worse defense, worse O-Line, and had to throw to a hurt Pierre Garcon, an old Santana Moss, and a bunch of no-name drop everythings in Joshua Morgan and Leonard Hankerson. Both had a better year than Luck.