Rivera: Panthers' new offense will be more of a collaberative effort

[Ship]

Yeah, I'm taking this as Rivera/Shula enacting the Gettleman approach to team management, like in the draft, getting everyone's opinion and then letting him make the final calls. Shula's gonna get perspectives from the assistant coaches and maybe some vet players and use that to give the team the best plays and best calls. Definitely starting to see some of the top down attitude adjustment in how the team is being run. Very excited to see how it plays out.

[Zod]

Common misconception: People are concerned because Shula has a history of conservative playcalling.

 

Reality: People are concerned because Shula has a history of not scoring points and not being able to make effective game plans and adjustments. 

 

 

I love a good conservative run game that pounds the ball. As long as its done in an effective manner with positive results.

[MHS831]

Or Chud wasn't listening to him, or Cam, or Shula, or the rest of the players.

 

But it's still Rivera who needed to get across to Chud.

Yes.  I think that explains the comment.  However, the comment was rather backhanded and could have been interpreted as a lack of confidence in Shula.  This makes sense.

[MHS831]

Common misconception: People are concerned because Shula has a history of conservative playcalling.

 

Reality: People are concerned because Shula has a history of not scoring points and not being able to make effective game plans and adjustments. 

 

 

I love a good conservative run game that pounds the ball. As long as its done in an effective manner with positive results.

I think it would make Cam more effective. 

[TheRumGone]

Be careful with assumptions.  If you ever coached, you would know that taking charge is not something that happens on game days.  It is a 24-7 mindset.  My point was this:  Why make this statement to the press if it is nothing more than what every team does?  It gives the impression that Shula will not be making overarching decisions.  My point, which was clearly stated, was that the perception that Shula is not capable of making decisions-justified or not-can cause players to doubt your leadership.

 

This goes on everywhere.  Why state this to the public?  What was the point? 

 

Are you not making assumptions too? Are you not assuming that what Rivera said is a negative?

 

Maybe he said those things because people were afraid Shula could be another Chud, knowing that we struggled at the beginning of the season because Chud couldn't get his head out of his ass? All of these things are assumptions.

[CRA]

Common misconception: People are concerned because Shula has a history of conservative playcalling.

Reality: People are concerned because Shula has a history of not scoring points and not being able to make effective game plans and adjustments.

I love a good conservative run game that pounds the ball. As long as its done in an effective manner with positive results.

Talent matters...look at Belichick, heck look at John Fox.

You could back Jeff Davidson and give him Cam....that offense will score

[MHS831]

I agree with most everything you posted here but just a point of fact, we did not have a lot of three and outs last year.  We were 10th in the NFL in drive success rate at .715 (which is a term used for three and outs) The reason our defense would tire is because they could not get off the field. 

 

I think our advancement in defense last year is over exaggerated.  Truth is our defense was not very good last year either.  It was better than 2011, but only because in 2011 our defense was incredibly bad.  Last year they were just moderately bad, which is an improvement, but we still have a ways to go.  Hopefully our young interior lineman can help.

Good info.  I remember the games we lost---Tampa Bay, Seattle, etc. when we could not get the offense going...

I agree that the defensive stats are fool's gold.  I never felt that we had a top 10 defense, but there are stats out there that suggest it. 

 

 

[teeray]

Good info.  I remember the games we lost---Tampa Bay, Seattle, etc. when we could not get the offense going...

I agree that the defensive stats are fool's gold.  I never felt that we had a top 10 defense, but there are stats out there that suggest it. 

 

I think the reason it feels that way is because it seems that our three and outs came in successive  bunches.  Like Tampa, Seattle, and Denver.

 

But for instance, against the Giants, we either had 1 or zero three and outs for the entire game.  We just didn't take care of the ball and had terrible penalties.

[rayzor]

Common misconception: People are concerned because Shula has a history of conservative playcalling.

 

Reality: People are concerned because Shula has a history of not scoring points and not being able to make effective game plans and adjustments. 

 

 

I love a good conservative run game that pounds the ball. As long as its done in an effective manner with positive results.

i think this is where the whole collaberation thing helps. he's not using his own playbook. he is using one with more than 10 pages with 2" margins. he's getting input from others so his ineptitude as a game planner should be limited. 

 

i think the game planning should be ok...at least i hope it is. the pre-game stuff should be ok. its the in-game decision making that has me worried.

[MHS831]

Are you not making assumptions too? Are you not assuming that what Rivera said is a negative?

 

Maybe he said those things because people were afraid Shula could be another Chud, knowing that we struggled at the beginning of the season because Chud couldn't get his head out of his ass? All of these things are assumptions.

Public statements are pretty much based on perception and not intent.  I am not the only one who sees how this could be interpreted in a negative light on Shula.  If Rivera is making backhanded comments about Chud, then he didn't think them through.  I do not care what was said and what was meant by the comments--I care how it will be perceived and why it was stated to the press.  It had the ability to undermine Shula.

Why not say, "Shula is our offensive coordinator" and let it go at that? Rivera is probably buying into the Gettlemen approach to decision-making, but that is internal stuff. He may be concerned that Chud went rougue and cost us the season, something he alone could have stopped, but there is also a perception that constant reinvention of yourself as a leader is a sign of weakness.

 

I am not critical of what was said.  I read the article, but I also read between the lines.  "Why was it said?" is more important that "What it said.".  "How will it be perceived by players and coaches?" is more important than "What was said about players and assistant coaches." 

 

I am not assuming facts, I am assuming a misunderstanding.  My statements reflect a risk that he could be misinterpreted and that he unintetionally hurt Shula's credibility in a public attempt to re-establish his own. 

[TheRumGone]

Public statements are pretty much based on perception and not intent.  I am not the only one who sees how this could be interpreted in a negative light on Shula.  If Rivera is making backhanded comments about Chud, then he didn't think them through.  I do not care what was said and what was meant by the comments--I care how it will be perceived and why it was stated to the press.  It had the ability to undermine Shula.

Why not say, "Shula is our offensive coordinator" and let it go at that? Rivera is probably buying into the Gettlemen approach to decision-making, but that is internal stuff. He may be concerned that Chud went rougue and cost us the season, something he alone could have stopped, but there is also a perception that constant reinvention of yourself as a leader is a sign of weakness.

 

I am not critical of what was said.  I read the article, but I also read between the lines.  "Why was it said?" is more important that "What it said.".  "How will it be perceived by players and coaches?" is more important than "What was said about players and assistant coaches." 

 

I am not assuming facts, I am assuming a misunderstanding.  My statements reflect a risk that he could be misinterpreted and that he unintetionally hurt Shula's credibility in a public attempt to re-establish his own. 

 

I think this was more to the fans than anything else. And if players were to read that, do you think there perception would be it was undermining to Shula? I don't think so, if anything it would be that they would have more of a say in how the offense is being structured.

 

Remember that Moose and Smith interview last week where Moose said they had a say in the offense during the week? They told the coaches what plays they liked, what plays they didn't like. And the coach used that information in the game plan for the week. 

 

Why was it even said? Maybe to appease some fans doubts, maybe to let players know coming in they could be more vocal then they were with Chud. Who knows. Maybe Rivera was just asked a question by Person and he answered it honestly. Maybe there was nothing more to it. Who knows. Bottom line is he said Shula will be the one who calls the plays on Sunday. That to me is just him telling the fans that Shula is running the show but will be getting input from other sources.

[panthers55]

I agree with most everything you posted here but just a point of fact, we did not have a lot of three and outs last year.  We were 10th in the NFL in drive success rate at .715 (which is a term used for three and outs) The reason our defense would tire is because they could not get off the field. 

 

I think our advancement in defense last year is over exaggerated.  Truth is our defense was not very good last year either.  It was better than 2011, but only because in 2011 our defense was incredibly bad.  Last year they were just moderately bad, which is an improvement, but we still have a ways to go.  Hopefully our young interior lineman can help.

Our defense finished 10th overall in total yards, We were 18th in points surrendered.  We were 9th in 3rd down % surrendered. We were 15th in yards surrendered per play. And so on. All while playing teams in our division who score a lot and in bunches.  We were a top 10-15 defense, the numbers show that.  Now you can argue we had some last game collapses but that was largely due to Rivera playing too conservatively most of the year even the last 2 games.  He hindered the defense as much of the time as he helped it.  I don't have numbers on it but I suspect if you look through 3 quarters of the game we were easily in the top 10 on most categories.

[teeray]

Our defense finished 10th overall in total yards, We were 18th in points surrendered.  We were 9th in 3rd down % surrendered. We were 15th in yards surrendered per play. And so on. All while playing teams in our division who score a lot and in bunches.  We were a top 10-15 defense, the numbers show that.  Now you can argue we had some last game collapses but that was largely due to Rivera playing too conservatively most of the year even the last 2 games.  He hindered the defense as much of the time as he helped it.  I don't have numbers on it but I suspect if you look through 3 quarters of the game we were easily in the top 10 on most categories.

 

 

 

Fair points especially the third down %, but anyone who knows me knows I frown on lumped stats like Total yards, total points.  I like things broken down to what our defense was doing when they were actually on the field like drive stats and % per x.  So with that in mind this was our defensive rankings last season:

 

Yard per drive: 20th

points per drive:  21st

forced punts per drive:  24th

forced turnovers per drive:  17th

Three and outs:  23rd

 

But, we were actually 7th in third down percentage (according to www.teamrankings.com) and we were 13th in TDs surrendered per drive.

 

We are near the bottom third in the league in yards per drive, points per drive, punts forced, and 3 and outs and right in the middle for turnovers per drive

 

By any measure that is not a very good defense and certainly not a top 10-15 defense.

 

I think our perception is skewed because of how bad the defense was in 2011 that last year's defense seemed pretty good.  It was only better than terrible.

[Gallagher]

I hope the line about Shula being more aggressive means we go for it more often on 4th and short. Effing ridiculous every time we punt in that situation when we have Ace Boogie as our QB.