How will Mike Shula change our offense?

[rayzor]

Actually, he had a pretty good running game down in Tampa, the problem was that the offense was not balanced do to less than stellar QB and receivers, thus was conservative out of necessity.  Now, blame can be placed on whomever you want, but can you provide any evidence that it was due to Shula's philosophies and not Dungy's?  Nope, didn't think so.  What we do know is that Dungy had a very similar philosophy to John Fox (it had been discussed quite a bit during Fox's tenure as well as during the flirtation with Dungy as Fox's replacement).  In fact, Dungy himself has said that he set the tone for his team, and I think it's a pretty safe bet that offense was included.  And it was obvious to even the most casual football fan that his focus was to have a dominant defense and not have the offense lose it.  So I tend to think that Shula was only carrying out Dungy's marching orders, not running the offense the exact way he wanted.

 

As for 'bama, you do realize that he was hired just after the school had been hammered by NCAA sanctions and the team was in serious turmoil.  Also, they lost several key players from the previous years' team, so his talent cupboard was pretty bare.  And despite all of this he consistently improved the team every year (4-9 -> 6-6 -> 10-2) until they fell off in year four to 6-6 and he was let go.  So it's not like he was a miserable HC that didn't have a clue and wasn't able to show any improvement in his team.  and I know you realize that the responsibilities of a HC are significantly different than those of an OC, so using his stint as a HC against him to vindicate your dislike of him as our choice for OC is pretty unfair.

 

To be clear, I am not blindly endorsing Shula as some mastermind that will turn this offense into the next great thing.  But what I am saying is that there were mitigating circumstances to both of his coaching stints to let me reserve judgement until I see what he actually does with the offensive talent we have.  Also, I am a believer that he has learned something during those times and in the years since...particularly the last two working directly with Cam and under a more aggressive coach in Chud.

 

you say all that, but without any record of success at all...it just looks like excuses.

 

until he proves otherwise (which i hope he does), that lack of success is on him.

[MadHatter]

Tells lame joke

Gets called out

Cries

 

You should listen a little closer.

 

That sound you hear is not me crying.  It is me laughing.......at you.

[panthers55]

Will Shula change the offense? Yes, but it won't be as much Xs and Os as people think and have gone on for pages and pages arguing about.  The problem with Chud's read option last year was that is was very complicated and required Cam to make multiple reads before he did anything.  He couldn't audible and as a result the offense was slow developing and predictable.

 

What Shula did at the end of last year and will continue this year is simplify things and allow Newton to audible and change things based on what he sees.  He will allow Cam to make one read on a run play and respond.  On passing plays we will keep things much as they were since that wasn't the area we struggled with.  He can use his athletic talent and respond to what he sees instead of having to overthink things.

As for Shula, he has been in some good systems since Tampa and hopefully learned.  I fully expect this offense to be productive as it was at the end of  last year.  

[Woodie]

Damn, didn't mean for that to be such a long post.

[MadHatter]

what evidence is there that things have changed? where is the evidence that he wasn't part of the problem? where is the record of success as a play caller? where is any trace of evidence showing that he can do the job successfully? where are the signs of growth?

 

 

Which is why I say we need to wait and see what kind of game he is going to call.

 

I am not the one making judgements about how he is going to be...that is all on you and Zod.

[Zod]

Makes judgements based on 12 years ago

 

Gets questioned on it

 

Whines like a little girl

 

 

You have posted no less than 50 times saying the same thing....Shula's offense was stagnant in Tampa 12 YEARS AGO with Dilfer/King at QB and Anthony as their top WR.

 

Yes, because providing legitimate reasons why I feel this way is "whining like a little girl."

 

You need to toughen your skin up a bit. Poke jabs at people then wet yourself when the same is done to you.

[Zod]

Which is why I say we need to wait and see what kind of game he is going to call.

 

I am not the one making judgements about how he is going to be...that is all on you and Zod.

 

Wrong. I can admit he may call great games. Maybe he has learned a great deal since Bama. Who knows.

 

But everyone here trying to shine light on his Tampa days when they actually have zero clue aside from reading a few articles is just silly.

[rayzor]

Which is why I say we need to wait and see what kind of game he is going to call.

 

I am not the one making judgements about how he is going to be...that is all on you and Zod.

it's looking at his body of work and seeing that it's unlikely that he will succeed. there's no evidence of success at anything other than being a QB coach, which is where i wish he had stayed while we hire someone who at least had some signs of success at some point or at least didn't have to have a history of failure with a car load of excuses for it.

 

i didn't want him to be hired. i thought it was a bad hire. i don't like the reasoning behind it (although i can understand it). i haven't seen any reason for me to change my mind. i'm not going to turn into superhomer and just pretend those doubts weren't there and my feelings about him being a bad hire turned off.

 

i can't all of a sudden turn into an optimist about him just because he was hired. that might work for you, but it doesn't work for me. he has to prove he doesn't suck for me to have faith in his being able to do a good job. i have to see him succeed for me to believe i'm wrong about him. i have to have evidence. there isn't any....at least not yet.

 

[mcdougal]

you have to be able to put more points on the board than the other team. that's just the way it is. your offense has to be able to outscore your opponents. they have to be prolific.

 

if you are counting on your defense to save your anemic offense that can't put up 25-30 points on the board week in and week out then more than likely you're going to be sitting at home at the end of the year watching the teams that "get it" rack up big scores to move them onto the next level.

 

the offense has to be explosive and your defense has to be stout.

 

 

Okay. Then why are we drafting defense when our offense was average last year?

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think you can win like the Giants and the Steelers and the 49ers did too...by relying on defense and the offense making enough plays...

 

Or we can go the Saints, Packers, or the Pats route too.

 

But don't give the offense junk...load up on defensive talent...and then look at the offense as if they should be scoring more...21 points should be enough.

 

Since Newton has gotten here offense has not been the focus...I don't know if that is the right tack or not...

 

But this season has to do with our defense carrying our team. Not Newton and the offense...

 

Newton and the offense just needs to stay out of the way of the defense.

 

If we were ATL or CIN than my opinion would totally change...those teams want offense and drafted as such...

[Woodie]

you say all that, but without any record of success at all...it just looks like excuses.

 

until he proves otherwise (which i hope he does), that lack of success is on him.

How is being part of a consistently good team and having one of the better running games not successful?  How is taking a college team hit with major sanctions and improving them every year until the last one not successful?  Are there questions about him?  Yes, most certainly.  But to act like he has had no success at all is ridiculous.   

 

Listen, I understand your reservations, I think we all have them to some degree, but I really do not understand your total and absolute pessimism about him.  It's almost as if you are trying really hard not to give him any benefit of the doubt, despite the fact that logic would dictate that he has learned something since his last stint as an OC. 

[TheRumGone]

Actually, he had a pretty good running game down in Tampa, the problem was that the offense was not balanced do to less than stellar QB and receivers, thus was conservative out of necessity.  Now, blame can be placed on whomever you want, but can you provide any evidence that it was due to Shula's philosophies and not Dungy's?  Nope, didn't think so.  What we do know is that Dungy had a very similar philosophy to John Fox (it had been discussed quite a bit during Fox's tenure as well as during the flirtation with Dungy as Fox's replacement).  In fact, Dungy himself has said that he set the tone for his team, and I think it's a pretty safe bet that offense was included.  And it was obvious to even the most casual football fan that his focus was to have a dominant defense and not have the offense lose it.  So I tend to think that Shula was only carrying out Dungy's marching orders, not running the offense the exact way he wanted.

 

As for 'bama, you do realize that he was hired just after the school had been hammered by NCAA sanctions and the team was in serious turmoil.  Also, they lost several key players from the previous years' team, so his talent cupboard was pretty bare.  And despite all of this he consistently improved the team every year (4-9 -> 6-6 -> 10-2) until they fell off in year four to 6-6 and he was let go.  So it's not like he was a miserable HC that didn't have a clue and wasn't able to show any improvement in his team.  and I know you realize that the responsibilities of a HC are significantly different than those of an OC, so using his stint as a HC against him to vindicate your dislike of him as our choice for OC is pretty unfair.

 

To be clear, I am not blindly endorsing Shula as some mastermind that will turn this offense into the next great thing.  But what I am saying is that there were mitigating circumstances to both of his coaching stints to let me reserve judgement until I see what he actually does with the offensive talent we have.  Also, I am a believer that he has learned something during those times and in the years since...particularly the last two working directly with Cam and under a more aggressive coach in Chud.

 

These are my thoughts exactly when thinking about Shula. Especially the bolded parts.  People can say, "oh, you're just making excuses." When in reality this is the reason why we debate these topics. To come to a complete rather than partial conclusion. Shula was handicapped by talent, could he have done better regardless? We don't know. I think the answer falls somewhere in the middle, between he should have done better with the "talent" he had and he was handicapped by the "talent" he had, all of which was over a decade ago.

 

 

[Zod]

How is being part of a consistently good team and having one of the better running games not successful?  How is taking a college team hit with major sanctions and improving them every year until the last one not successful?  Are there questions about him?  Yes, most certainly.  But to act like he has had no success at all is ridiculous.   

 

Listen, I understand your reservations, I think we all have them to some degree, but I really do not understand your total and absolute pessimism about him.  It's almost as if you are trying really hard not to give him any benefit of the doubt, despite the fact that logic would dictate that he has learned something since his last stint as an OC. 

 

How many teams were looking at Shula as an OC before we were forced to? Zero

How many teams wanted Shula as an OC over the past decade? Zero

 

Why do you think that is? Just a huge mistake? Or do teams value the history of any given coach?

 

I suspect Shula will struggle at times and rely on our defense to keep us in games. I don't expect him to be a good OC, although I welcome the opportunity to be surprised. This will be his last chance at a higher level coaching job in the NFL, for his sake he better knock it out of the park.

[mcdougal]

I think gettleman wants to build us like the 49ers with kaep. There's room for a great defense and an offense that can put up numbers

 

 

Sorry, I just don't see the talent (unless Shula is a genius) for our offense to be like the 49ers...The number of play makers just is not there...

 

Could be the team that has enough offense to help out our defense...yes...but we are not putting up numbers this year...

 

And we should not be expected to.

 

Our defense needs to be top five though.

[TheRumGone]

How many teams were looking at Shula as an OC before we were forced to? Zero

How many teams wanted Shula as an OC over the past decade? Zero

 

Why do you think that is? Just a huge mistake? Or do teams value the history of any given coach?

 

I suspect Shula will struggle at times and rely on our defense to keep us in games. I don't expect him to be a good OC, although I welcome the opportunity to be surprised. This will be his last chance at a higher level coaching job in the NFL, for his sake he better knock it out of the park.

 

Well some were looking at him for head coaching positions. I know that is not OC, but you act like he was completely shunned from the NFL after Alabama and Tampa.