Shula proponent behind replacing zone read last season?

[CRA]

Then again you have said you are a Williams supporter too. We just paid too much........

That is what you call support?? A couple of left handed compliments while you slip in the knife??

Et tu Brute??

Again, there are posts after posts of me defending Shula. Again, you are looking to argue on this one...searching for an arguement that is here.

I am of fan of Williams....not a fan of him being in the situation the FO created. I repeatedly tell you and others it isn't actually about Williams overall in these talks but about what Hurney created....but you elect to just focus on the Williams. Ignoring it has always been about not overinvesting at RB....

[panthers55]

Keep your right handed bigotry out of here. Hitler was right handed you know....

 

As to the actual topic, here's the sentence we're debating:

 

"QBs coach Mike Shula helped install a more traditional, I-formation offense, replacing Rob Chudzinski's zone read"

 

That sounds like Rivera stepping in and forcing Chud to make a change, and having Shula involved in that process, which honestly, sounds plausible. After season 1, all the players, coaches, etc were afraid to lose Chud. After season 2, they didn't seem too broken up when he left. 

 

The reality is we have no clue, and probably will never know because that stuff is and should remain internal team business. 

 

But that's one of the reasons why we're here, to debate and discuss opinions even when we have little real information. So maybe we can just acknowledge that we're all speculating and not get so worked up when someone's speculation differs from our own.

First off I am left handed which means that by the old joke one of the few folks in their right mind around here.

Secondly I am sure Shula had a lot to do with the offense and particularly Newton's turnaround which everyone said was key to the improvement.

As for getting worked up, that must be your perception of the situation not mine.  I think everyone has a right to say what they want and it is a message board after all.  Anyone who takes things too seriously needs to step away from the keyboard.  I give CRA a hard time because he almost always takes a negative viewpoint and pounds on and on for pages.  When he is wrong, it comes back as a one post apology or usually none at all which is hardly comparable.  But no matter, it takes all kinds on a message board and he is hardly the most ardent contrarian around here.

[panthers55]

Again, there are posts after posts of me defending Shula. Again, you are looking to argue on this one...searching for an arguement that is here.

I am of fan of Williams....not a fan of him being in the situation the FO created. I repeatedly tell you and others it isn't actually about Williams overall in these talks but about what Hurney created....but you elect to just focus on the Williams. Ignoring it has always been about not overinvesting at RB....

 

Me thinks you protest too much........

[CRA]

Me thinks you protest too much........

Me thinks....now with hindsight....you know I was right about this RB situation years ago when you and I started our back and forth. You arguing both get extended and I arguing pick one.

me thinks...you dislike being wrong much more than I.

[poorboysrev]

I like that Shula will use more I form/prosets  because it will help our RB's be more effective and Cam looked really good under center last year using Playaction. Mixing that in with what Cam can do in Shotgun and we will be hard to stop. I think Shula's offense will be based more on outexecuting the other team instead of Chud trying to outscheme/trick them. To me it's kind of like the differences in the Giants vs a team like the Saints. I hope we work more no huddle in and use it throughout the game. With Cam's running ability I think giving the other defense less time to set up would help.

[panthers55]

Me thinks....now with hindsight....you know I was right about this RB situation years ago when you and I started our back and forth. You arguing both get extended and I arguing pick one.

me thinks...you dislike being wrong much more than I.

Weren't you saying Williams would be cut last year and we were not going to be able to retain Stewart?  Wrong on both counts.  Weren't you the one that said with Stewart we didn't need Williams right up until Stewart missed so many games this past year and Williams came strong given the right scheme. Oh that's right, you discounted all of his production because he killed our dreaded enemies the Saints in their house.  Now you saying that we should run Newton more, stay with the read option and not go to a more pro-style offense.    

 

I on the other hand was the one that told you that Williams was retained because we didn't know how long newton would take to develop, we sucked so bad in 2010  (which I also presaged would happen) that we had to pay a premium to keep any of our players.  We did it because we really had little choice in order to right the ship and convince fans we were serious about winning after Richardson gutted the team and was so wrong about the lockout. I also told you that Williams would be used for a couple of year and would never see all of that money and that the issue was the guaranteed money not the total compensation. Now I think we need to go back to a more traditional power running game which makes play action more useful and  fits with a vertical passing  attack. Now watch how Shula does this year and you will see I am right again. 

 

But have the last  word and backpedal like Deon Sanders as you spin what you said.  I won't debate it now just wait until the season ends so we can once again see who was right.

[poorboysrev]

Me thinks....now with hindsight....you know I was right about this RB situation years ago when you and I started our back and forth. You arguing both get extended and I arguing pick one.

me thinks...you dislike being wrong much more than I.

 

    I think anyone would have to agree that Hurney should have made a choice 3 years ago to just extend one and trade/release the other while both backs had more value. Plus since I like both backs I would have liked to see what each could have done with the 20-25 carries they can't get here. Same as when the signs were clear Pep didn't want to resign here he should have gotten something for him.

    Maybe Hurney was haunted still by making the choice to let Moose walk because of Keary that clearly was a mistake. Or Morgan over Spoon.Jake's big contract. Damn, it seems like every time he had to make the tough call he got it wrong.

[Davidson Deac II]

While I am not a big fan of the read option as a primary staple of the offense, I think it is smart to keep it in because it keeps the D honest.  I did not see the activity during free agency or the draft in terms of building a powerful offensive line that would suggest we are abandoning the read option. 

 

The biggest thing our offense needs is a QB who does not allow adversity to take his head out of the game.  I know that comment will annoy the huggers who post whenever he is seen at the mall or on a TV commercial, but it is an opinion shared by most experts.

 

 

I agree to an extent.  But I do think that Cam got better at that at the end of the season.  The question is, did he get better because he became more experienced, or did he get better because the competition got worse?  IMO, its a combination of the two, but he should continue to improve in that regard this coming season.  I can't wait to find out.  :)

[panthers55]

    I think anyone would have to agree that Hurney should have made a choice 3 years ago to just extend one and trade/release the other while both backs had more value. Plus since I like both backs I would have liked to see what each could have done with the 20-25 carries they can't get here. Same as when the signs were clear Pep didn't want to resign here he should have gotten something for him.

    Maybe Hurney was haunted still by making the choice to let Moose walk because of Keary that clearly was a mistake. Or Morgan over Spoon.Jake's big contract. Damn, it seems like every time he had to make the tough call he got it wrong.

 

The issue was that Hurney paid Jake too much hoping that 2009 was going to be the year we won it all after the 2008 season thinking the playoff game was an aberation instead of a harbinger  of the future. After 2010 he had to retain Williams and Johnson and way overpay to keep fans from abandoning ship given they were very popular players and the consensus was Richardson was cheap and didn't care about winning.

Signing Stewart to a big contract with all that guaranteed money was actually the bigger mistake given he didn't have to do it and he knew the cap would be flat which camme out well after Williams  was signed.. He compounded it by either not telling Rivera and Chud to run a more conventional offense and use what he had signed or had signed players that they were going to use. He didn't do either and was fired for it. Rightly so.

[Who Said What?]

While I am not a big fan of the read option as a primary staple of the offense, I think it is smart to keep it in because it keeps the D honest.  I did not see the activity during free agency or the draft in terms of building a powerful offensive line that would suggest we are abandoning the read option. 

 

The biggest thing our offense needs is a QB who does not allow adversity to take his head out of the game.  I know that comment will annoy the huggers who post whenever he is seen at the mall or on a TV commercial, but it is an opinion shared by most experts.

 

This kid won a national championship while the entire country held court on accusations about his family and eligibility.  He went undefeated, including a 24 point comeback win at previously unbeatable Alabama.  Cam does not need to learn how to lose better, and I believe his head was in all of our games as evidenced by us having fourth quarter leads 50% of the time in his two year tenure.  Miss me with all of this Colin Cowherd, Joe Person opinion type posting.

[Who Said What?]

I like that Shula will use more I form/prosets  because it will help our RB's be more effective and Cam looked really good under center last year using Playaction. Mixing that in with what Cam can do in Shotgun and we will be hard to stop. I think Shula's offense will be based more on outexecuting the other team instead of Chud trying to outscheme/trick them. To me it's kind of like the differences in the Giants vs a team like the Saints. I hope we work more no huddle in and use it throughout the game. With Cam's running ability I think giving the other defense less time to set up would help.

 

This is exactly how I feel.  Cam killed his first year and Chud got so damn creative that we struggled at first.  I know Tolbert was happy, because he didn't have to lead block until week eight!  It was clear that Shula had something to do with the playcalling, because the offense went from the single back, read option formation to the lead full-back, pro set.  Shula will be fine, seeing he no longer has Dungy with the handcuffs on him or Shaun King as his signal caller.  The only weapons he had down there was MIke Alstott and little Warrick Dunn.

[CRA]

Weren't you saying Williams would be cut last year and we were not going to be able to retain Stewart? Wrong on both counts. Weren't you the one that said with Stewart we didn't need Williams right up until Stewart missed so many games this past year and Williams came strong given the right scheme. Oh that's right, you discounted all of his production because he killed our dreaded enemies the Saints in their house. Now you saying that we should run Newton more, stay with the read option and not go to a more pro-style offense.

I on the other hand was the one that told you that Williams was retained because we didn't know how long newton would take to develop, we sucked so bad in 2010 (which I also presaged would happen) that we had to pay a premium to keep any of our players. We did it because we really had little choice in order to right the ship and convince fans we were serious about winning after Richardson gutted the team and was so wrong about the lockout. I also told you that Williams would be used for a couple of year and would never see all of that money and that the issue was the guaranteed money not the total compensation. Now I think we need to go back to a more traditional power running game which makes play action more useful and fits with a vertical passing attack. Now watch how Shula does this year and you will see I am right again.

But have the last word and backpedal like Deon Sanders as you spin what you said. I won't debate it now just wait until the season ends so we can once again see who was right.

No. You distort what I have said to fit your arguments.

Hurney did a lot of what you suggested for the reasons you suggested.....he was also fired bc of it and Gettlemen brought in to now fix it.

We should of picked one RB and moved on from the other. LOL, we had no choice but to overinvest in RBs?!

[CRA]

I think anyone would have to agree that Hurney should have made a choice 3 years ago to just extend one and trade/release the other while both backs had more value. Plus since I like both backs I would have liked to see what each could have done with the 20-25 carries they can't get here. Same as when the signs were clear Pep didn't want to resign here he should have gotten something for him.

Maybe Hurney was haunted still by making the choice to let Moose walk because of Keary that clearly was a mistake. Or Morgan over Spoon.Jake's big contract. Damn, it seems like every time he had to make the tough call he got it wrong.

Marty and panthers55 don't agree

[MadHatter]

We should just stop arguing about the type of offense that Shula is going to run this season.  None of us know........

 

Just gonna have to wait and see on the field.