Star/Short vs. Dareus/Cox/Brockers

[The Huddler]

Star is gunna rip poo up with his supporting cast and Rivera at the helm.

[csx]

If at the end of the season we can have an intelligent discussion about our guys being compared to those guys we will be ver very happy.

[DaCityKats]

If you want to get technical, Star's and Marcell's numbers (two year period) were almost identical coming out of college.

Dareus: 67 tackles, 20 TFLs, 11 sacks, 0 FFs

Lotulelei: 86 tackles, 21 TFLs, 7 sacks, 4 FFs

Combine numbers don't mean squat but consider this, both Dareus and Lotulelei recorded similar workout stats too. Hell, Star was getting Dareus (and Ngata) comparisons. At the moment though, Starlite has yet to play a single down in the NFL so suggesting who's superior is premature.

 

combine numbers do mean something, as it showcases the athleticism a prospect has. now you have to take those numbers to the tape, to see if it shows up there or not. that is why a lot of times you hear draftniks beat the horse about a player playing to a certain speed, or have a good change of direction, or how a guy is explosive by his 40 yard dash and vertical/broad jumps.

 

their numbers are similar but again where they are different is in the athleticism field. marcel has shown the ability to do things star has not. and that also shows up in the combine/ pro day numbers as well as the field. i am ready to see him vs the Mangolds, Nicks, Grubbs to see how he handles it tho, because these guys are just as strong, and will have the technique to do things that the guys on the college level could not do to him.

[XClown1986]

I've always looked at it this way: The combine determines the player's work ethic and upside.  The film determines the player's passion and instincts.

[DaCityKats]

No, they do not. Athleticism is a factor but combine numbers mean nothing on the field at the end of the day. If workout stats meant something then Poe would be the most dominating DT in the NFL and Wallace would be a Top 5 WR.

The same goes for Marcell. Star does several things better than Dareus just as Dareus does some things better than Star. For instance, Lotulelei is the stronger tackler between the two coming out of college but Marcell had an array of pass rushing moves that Star currently lacks.

I think Rivera and Washington are going to coach him well. He'll struggle in his rookie season because he needs to develop his technique but that's what makes it exciting. Lotulelei got by on his athleticism in college, so I can't wait to see him flourish under good coaching.

 

you do realize that the combine and his numbers was the reason why Poe got drafted as high as he did?again the combine numbers got him noticed, but his tape in no way warranted a top 15 pick. no DT will come into the league and dominate in his first season (Suh is the exception). every coach loves athleticism because they can mold a player into what they want a player to be. and Wallace may not be a top 5 WR but he is paid as one, and he is well respected as a threat because of his speed (something he displayed at the combine). his hands are inconsistent which is why he is not considered one.

 

 

i can go on and on about players having super combines and getting drafted higher because of it. the combine is all apart of the process that prospects go thru before being drafted.

[carolina-chuck]

Colin was a better prospect then Gabbert, but the Jags seen something in Blaine that they thought they had to have.

I don't think this is true at all.

Gabbert had so much hype and even considered a very damn good prospect. He was projected higher than Cam and at times was mocked to us. Gabbert was supposed to be a plug and play QB right away. Many, many of us didn't even know who we should take: Cam or Gabbert? Thank God we made the right pick.

Everyone knew Kaep had an arm but the rest were questionable. He came from a small school, pistol/option system at Nevada, raw, and had poor mechanics. Hindsight 20/20, everyone can look back and say he was the better prospect. No one knew who this kid was except for Harbaugh. And, even when SF took him at 36 many were surprised.

Even though, Wilson was amazing at Wisconsin, the same goes for Wilson. Everyone wanna act like they knew he was something special. No one knew anything. He was supposed to go later than the 3rd rd. Carroll struck gold with the kid.

[OneBadCat]

The great thing about it though is that Star is coming to a team where he doesn't have to make big strides in his game to be effective for us right off the bat. He just needs to do what he already does best. Take a double team and stuff the run. The rest of the d-line is so talented that it won't matter as much. CJ and Hardy will both take a double team, Dwan is great in the pass rush and should be able to handle most 1 on 1 match ups. Star is the missing piece in that d-line.

[carolina-chuck]

The great thing about it though is that Star is coming to a team where he doesn't have to make big strides in his game to be effective for us right off the bat. He just needs to do what he already does best. Take a double team and stuff the run. The rest of the d-line is so talented that it won't matter as much. CJ and Hardy will both take a double team, Dwan is great in the pass rush and should be able to handle most 1 on 1 match ups. Star is the missing piece in that d-line.

Exactly. Considering that on paper, our Dline is better than Buffalo's 2011, and St. Louis and Philly of last year it makes you think that Star can have immediate impact like the three of them. Maybe, even better or close to Dareus the least.

[beastson]

I like to remind people that under Rivera, we drafted 4 DT's within the 1st 3 rounds

[Beast_3000]

Just compare talents please. I never said to imagine taking Dareus over Cam. Compare Star to Dareus.

And no, why Cox to Star? Star is a NT like Dareus, not UT (Cox).

Like I said, Short is a 1st td talent. It's all good comparing him to Cox/Brockers.

I think Star will be able to produce better than Dareus over the life of his career because of his explosion off the snap. I would give the edge to Star based on collegiate play. Very few DT's have Stars explosion.. I think he will be very successful at NT. Dareus played in the SEC so he probably played against better talent each week as preparation for the NFL, but Star should make up for it with his athleticism.

Cox is more athletic and explosive than Short so I would give the edge to Cox. Short will have an advantage collapsing the pocket over Cox. Shorts skills slicing through the pocket and getting small will not be a necessity when the quaterback doesnt have a pocket to step into. I am excited about our run defense with Star and Short because of their ability to clog the holes. Short has an advantage over Cox in run plugging due to his play at NT at Purdue, but his skill set is better suited for UT.

[Woodie]

I don't think Cox is/was a better prospect than Short.  I actually think their skill sets are at about the same level.  The difference, though, is that unlike Cox, people had concerns with Short's inconsistency and tendency to take plays off...that's the only reason he wasn't a consensus mid-first round pick like Cox was.

 

And to be honest, that was my major hangup with him as a potential Panther.  But if the reports that his inconsistencies were due to overwork, constant double teams, and playing on a bum ankle most of the year are true, then I believe his ceiling is every bit as high as Cox'. 

 

 

[rayzor]

If we took Dareus, we wouldnt have Cam.

If we took Cox, we wouldnt have Kuechly.

this.

 

we are much better off with these past couple drafts overall than we would have been if we had substituted either first round pick for one of those three first rounders.

 

and i don't think there is much of a drop off, if any at all, from dareus, cox, and brockers in what we have in star and short.

[carolina-chuck]

I think Star will be able to produce better than Dareus over the life of his career because of his explosion off the snap. I would give the edge to Star based on collegiate play. Very few DT's have Stars explosion.. I think he will be very successful at NT. Dareus played in the SEC so he probably played against better talent each week as preparation for the NFL, but Star should make up for it with his athleticism.

Cox is more athletic and explosive than Short so I would give the edge to Cox. Short will have an advantage collapsing the pocket over Cox. Shorts skills slicing through the pocket and getting small will not be a necessity when the quaterback doesnt have a pocket to step into. I am excited about our run defense with Star and Short because of their ability to clog the holes. Short has an advantage over Cox in run plugging due to his play at NT at Purdue, but his skill set is better suited for UT.

Thank you. Someone finally did what I ask.

Good say.

[carolina-chuck]

this.

we are much better off with these past couple drafts overall than we would have been if we had substituted either first round pick for one of those three first rounders.

and i don't think there is much of a drop off, if any at all, from dareus, cox, and brockers in what we have in star and short.

But, "again and again" that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking for you guys to compare Star and Short to the previous DTs that weve seen mocked to us in the past.