My source has told me...

[koolkatluke]

Actually, yes, you do. Tennessee started using him out of gimmick plays because they couldn't trust that he would be where he was supposed to be when running his routes. So they took the thinking out of his hands.

Some people don't understand that some players do all the gimmick plays for 2 reason.

1. The Good = He is such a great player you try to find more ways to get the ball in his hands. Including the stuff he gets in the normal base offense.

Example -- Tavon Austin = He did all the gimmick stuff while still having 112 rec. for 1289 yards in the normal base offense.

2. The Bad = You can't pick up the offense and you can't get enough touches in the normal plays. But your such a good athlete that the coach has to design easy ways to get the ball in your hands. Like handoffs, reverses , and other gimmick plays.

Example --- Patterson = 46 rec. for 778 yards and 25 rushing attempts.

[carpanfan96]

Pretty sure I read that Cyprien was nursing a hamstring injury when he did his physical testing. Which is also why he didn't participate in some aspects of the combine.

He was suffering one from before the combine, but he chose to workout during his pro day and it ding his draft stock a bit.

The more damaging thing though was his cone time vs his strengths and weaknesses. It furthered confirmed his issues with changing directions and moving his hips to stick to route runners.

It doesn't help the fact that he's overly aggressive as well, add that to his lack of elite speed and agility concerns and his workout hurt.

[carpanfan96]

I think he's benefiting from the fact that team's love his coverage skills in the seam and therefore overlook his less than stellar play elsewhere on the field. If he was being graded purely on anything but coverage ability he'd probably be the third or fourth guy at his position, based only on his film. However, the flip side is that Texas really used him in an unusual manner, so he might just need coaching up and experience.

Here's something else that I don't think has trickled out to the draftniks yet, but teams are starting to shy away from heavy-hitting safeties, as they feel the league is going to continue penalizing players until the days of attempting to separate receivers from the ball is over. In such a brave new world coverage skills will be all-important. If we took him I wouldn't be upset, God knows we need some help back there.

Another reason that I have Cyprien falling to the 49ers in the first. A smash mouth guy in the secondary that looks for hard hits is going to hurt his team a lot and it's pretty hard to get someone out of the tendency to look for highlight hits.

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

He was suffering one from before the combine, but he chose to workout during his pro day and it ding his draft stock a bit.

The more damaging thing though was his cone time vs his strengths and weaknesses. It furthered confirmed his issues with changing directions and moving his hips to stick to route runners.

It doesn't help the fact that he's overly aggressive as well, add that to his lack of elite speed and agility concerns and his workout hurt.

Could it be that his hamstring strain was still having a negative impact on his workout numbers? Even a stage two hamstring strain can take 2-3 weeks to really start getting back to normal. He probably didn't want to push himself to risk further injury. Anyone with a strained hamstring is obviously going to struggled changing directions and moving his hips. A lot of it is mental as well.

Kenny Vaccaro is the definition of over aggressive. Neither of the guys have elite speed. There is a reason it is called "elite." Aggression can be coached...and I'd take the guy with similar workout numbers and size with natural football instincts and leadership qualities than an athlete who just flies around the field.

[fieryprophet]

Once again, I don't care for scout grades. They at one point had Hankins, Reid and Te'o in the Top 15. What matters is on draft day, and Cyprien could go as high as 14. Elam will likely go before Cyprien but it's unpredictable.

Cyprien lacks agility and elite speed but his instincts and IQ are stronger than Vaccaro's and Elam's. So it's not that easy to predict.

It really shouldn't matter how a player is ranked anyways, there are only a handful of players in each draft good enough to improve any team, the rest will be better for some teams than others or just terrible overall. That's why arguments about whether we should pick up Tavon Austin amuse me, since we're one of the few teams very experienced in utilizing an undersized receiver and have a quarterback dynamic enough to make full use of him if need be. He'd be a much better match for us than a team like the Bucs, who run a more conservative offense and don't really make much use of the slot receiver, whereas we use Smitty out of the slot all the time.

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Another reason that I have Cyprien falling to the 49ers in the first. A smash mouth guy in the secondary that looks for hard hits is going to hurt his team a lot and it's pretty hard to get someone out of the tendency to look for highlight hits.

Again, many of the knocks on Vaccaro say the same thing. Say he gets over emotional on the field, gets up field far too fast and takes himself out of plays, tackles high and doesn't wrap up, launches himself into ball carriers.

I'd bet the player with better instincts, higher football IQ, and leadership would be easier to coach and quicker to change his ways. If Cyprien can control his aggressiveness and temper it down just a bit with some coaching, he will be a better safety on the natural instincts that can't be coached to some extent.

[Cpt slay a ho]

i don't know how many times this has been said..............there is only one steve smith........the comparisons to tavon are a little out there

[La Pantera]

Then good bye Ron. The devaluing of the DT position around here is fuging stupid.

People act like they enjoy watching undrafted players run it down our throats.

It's like 2011 didn't happen around here.

I'm not undervaluing or devaluing anything. I said I didn't think they'd take a DT til the 4th. Not that they shouldn't take one til then. You know who I wanted to draft last year....Fletcher Cox. This team does need a DT! More specific a NT. And I wanted one in the 2nd this year, but after the Gettlmen presser it sounds like they're aiming for one further down the board.

So how bout actually knowing, who or what a person is refering to before lumping them together and getting your thong in a twist.

[carpanfan96]

Could it be that his hamstring strain was still having a negative impact on his workout numbers? Even a stage two hamstring strain can take 2-3 weeks to really start getting back to normal. He probably didn't want to push himself to risk further injury. Anyone with a strained hamstring is obviously going to struggled changing directions and moving his hips. A lot of it is mental as well.

Kenny Vaccaro is the definition of over aggressive. Neither of the guys have elite speed. There is a reason it is called "elite." Aggression can be coached...and I'd take the guy with similar workout numbers and size with natural football instincts and leadership qualities than an athlete who just flies around the field.

It's possible that it was hurting him, but his game shows a lack of agility and change direction ability. Vaccaro is much more fluid athlete. Which is why most have him rated higher, that and his slot coverage ability.

He's also more aggressive then Vaccaro, not only does Cyprien look to jump routes and run plays but he also likes to go for overly aggressive highlight hits.

[Cary Kollins]

Gettleman will make the right decision.

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

It's possible that it was hurting him, but his game shows a lack of agility and change direction ability. Vaccaro is much more fluid athlete. Which is why most have him rated higher, that and his slot coverage ability.

He's also more aggressive then Vaccaro, not only does Cyprien look to jump routes and run plays but he also likes to go for overly aggressive highlight hits.

I guess I'd rather have a guy that is over aggressive at times (which can be coached out of him) and great football IQ, instincts, and leadership qualities than a guy that consistently takes poor angles, gets flushed out of plays, and I don't think he is nearly as good a tackler as Cyprien.

I'll take the natural football player that can diagnose defenses and lead our secondary with comparable workout numbers over the athlete that just plays reckless abandon. That's not to say Vaccaro cannot be coached, but Cyprien is already more polished and better fits this team. Vaccaro I believe is going to be strictly a FS and our coaching staff has said Godfrey has found a home there while Cyprien is a natural SS.

Sure, Vaccaro's ability to play the slot is nice but we now have DJ Moore and Captain Munnerlyn who were signed to do just that.

[koolkatluke]

I'm not undervaluing or devaluing anything. I said I didn't think they'd take a DT til the 4th. Not that they shouldn't take one til then. You know who I wanted to draft last year....Fletcher Cox. This team does need a DT! More specific a NT. And I wanted one in the 2nd this year, but after the Gettlmen presser it sounds like they're aiming for one further down the board.

So how bout actually knowing, who or what a person is refering to before lumping them together and getting your thong in a twist.

And If Gettlemen has that mind set of waiting to get a 4th round draft pick to fix a enormous hole then like I said Good bye Ron.

Which was my point it's fuging stupid for this FO and this coaching staff to fall in the same path of devaluing the DT position like they did in 2011. When they thought 2 3rd round picks and some table scrapes in FA could fix the DT situation. I'm hoping Gettlemen puts more effort into the DT position then a 4th round pick.

So untwist your thong Jr.

[fieryprophet]

i don't know how many times this has been said..............there is only one steve smith........the comparisons to tavon are a little out there

I wasn't comparing them directly, only saying that we are one of the few teams that have extensive experience utilizing smaller players as featured receivers. I doubt seriously we could ever use Austin as a pure #1 receiver in the way we use Smith, no one quite has Smith's ability to outfight defensive backs for balls. But, the NFL is moving away from #1 and #2 receiver distinctions anyways, these days it's better to have 3 #2's than a traditional #1, #2, #3. The Packers epitomize this with Nelson, Jones and Cobb.

[carpanfan96]

I guess I'd rather have a guy that is over aggressive at times (which can be coached out of him) and great football IQ, instincts, and leadership qualities than a guy that consistently takes poor angles, gets flushed out of plays, and I don't think he is nearly as good a tackler as Cyprien.

I'll take the natural football player that can diagnose defenses and lead our secondary with comparable measureless over the athlete that just plays reckless abandon. That's not to say Vaccaro cannot be coached, but Cyprien is already more polished and better fits this team. Vaccaro I believe is going to be strictly a FS and our coaching staff has said Godfrey has found a home there while Cyprien is a natural SS.

Sure, Vaccaro's ability to play the slot is nice but we now have DJ Moore and Captain Munnerlyn who were signed to do just that.

I must have deleted this by accident in my last post.

They have similar weaknessess

However Vaccaro is the more fluid athlete and is better with the ball in the air and in man coverage.

While Cyprien is a smarter player that takes better angles, but looses the ball when it's in the air coming into his area of the field. Not sure what causes it though.

They both have excellent football instincts though in the box, while Cyprien is more reliable on the backend. Neither are very good in the middle of the field.