Interesting interview with Mike Tannenbaum on Sirius today.

[koolkatluke]

Agree wholeheartedly with the, we need starters out of our first two picks, crowd. If we get the 14th, or better, talented player in the first. I would think we got a starter out of the deal. Same with round 2. There should be plenty of talent left at 44 to pretty much assure us of another starter.

So if we plan on getting starters with our first two picks. What positions can we expect?

CB or S are both a need, and a playmaking, positions. Is there anyone worth taking in this slot? Not convinced there is, but there are some folks who believe there is. So this is an interesting area.

WR is not truly a need, but it is a playmaking position. So we could see one of these. Again, is there anyone worth taking? Strong maybe with this one.

DT and RG are both needs. Not really playmaking positions. But with the right talent, can allow others to make plays. There are a few of these available. So we could see one of these two.

The only thing i disagree with you about is. IMO DT is a play making position. You can't tell me that Wilfork , Watts, Naga and Geno Akins aren't playmakers.

[iamhubby1]

The only thing i disagree with you about is. IMO DT is a play making position. You can't tell me that Wilfork , Watts, Naga and Geno Akins aren't playmakers.

Valid point. There are DTs that can make plays. And if we could nab one to pair with Dwan, our DL would be top 5. But in general, when I think of playmakers, I tend to think about players around the ball. I am not sure a DT would fit the criteria. Though Gettelmen did say, Big Guys, and TD makers. So I guess DT is not out of the realm of possibility. I just want the best players. Don't really care what position they play. We can find a place for talent and athleticism.

[poorboysrev]

1. And why do you just want a solid defense when we have the pieces for a really good defense? We just need to add a talented DT and secondary pieces. Let's see what Rivera can do with talent on all three levels of the defense. We can win this division by having the best defense. Nobody in this division can stop our offense already

With a fading Steve Smith but watch any game where he has gotten hurt or not played, our passing game looks very average very quick. Teams can single up Lafell and Murphy(last year)/Hixon/Pilares you name it and stack the line to kill the running game. We were also very streaky. Several games with 21 points are less. Yes Chud was a big part of that but Cam hitting guys on 3rd down or in the endzone and them not making the play was an issue. I think we can spare 1 pick on a WR and still help the defense with our other picks and FA after the draft.

2. We gave up 350 and 450 passing days to Ryan and Brees. Not to mention Brady f' Quinn career day. That's not good any way you put it.

I do see that point. But they did break up some key passes and grab an INT each game. The Falcons and Saints are 2 of the best passing offenses in the league, we are not going to hold their passing numbers down that far. Look how much Julio has made that passing game explode and they were not a bad offense before. I know you will say there is no Julio this draft. But Hopkins is being compared to Jordy Nelson or a more ready version of Roddy White. Either of those guys with Steve would be an upgrade. Hunter was being compared to AJ Green before his injury, not saying he's that but if he's even 80%-90% the player with Steve/Lafell/Olsen that would be huge.

I want us to upgrade our defense bro. I would just think 1 of those guys and a good FA Guard would make our offense elite and also be a safety net in case Steve goes down. Sustaining drives better will help our D out tremendously. Scoring TD's instead of FG's and going up early on teams will allow our passrush to take over(similar to Freeney and Mathis) and force teams out of running the ball.

We can shore up DT and secondary and still get a legit WR.

[poorboysrev]

If you do not think any of the existing WRs are capable of becoming feared #1 WRs, what would you do (especially with little cap room)? I would sign Hixon, Ginn, and go with the crew.

I agree that we should draft a WR and develop him now, but does Hopkins' upside override the other needs, etc? If you focus only on the WR position, you say "We gotta have one", but if you put it beside CB, DT, and S, you say, "Where are we getting the biggest bang for the buck?"

I think our board has a mix of OL, DTs, DBs, and WRs. Note that we are holding a little cap room for after the draft. I think we will pick BPA and then sign a player to fill the last gap.

Right. That's why we signed cheap vets at all of those positions so that we do have experienced guys in place to take BPA. Gettleman doesn't want to be in a position to have to draft based on need. The biggest question mark is the Panthers board. Where do they see the WR's ranked in comparison with the other players. If we take a WR it will be because they think he is the BPA and best fit for us, Gettleman will not reach.

We can upgrade several positions so I will only be pissed if we take a RB,QB,or LB early. I was unhappy with the Kuechly pick for about 10 mins on draft night then saw the logic in it and it turned out awesome. We all have our opinions but in the end it is a crap shoot, only time will tell.

[koolkatluke]

I do see that point. But they did break up some key passes and grab an INT each game. The Falcons and Saints are 2 of the best passing offenses in the league, we are not going to hold their passing numbers down that far. Look how much Julio has made that passing game explode and they were not a bad offense before. I know you will say there is no Julio this draft. But Hopkins is being compared to Jordy Nelson or a more ready version of Roddy White. Either of those guys with Steve would be an upgrade. Hunter was being compared to AJ Green before his injury, not saying he's that but if he's even 80%-90% the player with Steve/Lafell/Olsen that would be huge.

I want us to upgrade our defense bro. I would just think 1 of those guys and a good FA Guard would make our offense elite and also be a safety net in case Steve goes down. Sustaining drives better will help our D out tremendously. Scoring TD's instead of FG's and going up early on teams will allow our passrush to take over(similar to Freeney and Mathis) and force teams out of running the ball.

We can shore up DT and secondary and still get a legit WR.

1. We might not stop everybody but we also won't out score everybody either. So both of us can't used that as a reason.

2. You give credit for a few pass breakups by a defense that just gave up 450 yards and 4 td. But blame a few drops on the offense for not sustaining drives? You can't have it both was like that.

3. Sustaining drives will help the defense. And that can be achieved with better playcalling and better use of the talent on the roster.

4. More stops, TO and field position wins by the defense will help the offense just as much or more. Again we had a top 5 offense and was very good at the end of the season when Chud's head wasn't up his ass. We are not that far off on offense.

5. You must also understand you talk about all these offenses that pass the ball 70% to 75% of the time. Don't have the money invested in a run game like we do. We are not going to get the same impact on having 3-4 good WR like the Packers do. We will still have a good run to pass ratio. Which teams like the packers don't.

[CRA]

1. Last year Michael Floyd, A J Jenkins, Quick, and Hill didn't . So i really don't need to do much research on that.

2. Why do i have to do your work? You said he made a comment about draft picks starting. You should produce the link.

1. You didn't answer the simple question....you answered a different one. You said a WR in this class couldn't outperform LaFell...and I asked you to name the last class that didn't have a WR produce above get he has (NOT name a WR who didn't out perform him)

2. You are asking me to find you something that was widely discussed and made a avalaible on this very message board...maybe when I am not on my phone I will

[Razeyfingers]

ugh...lol...those may sound like ultimatums...but trust me, they aren't. i'm not dictating anything. those are all nothing more than opinion rationales. spin it some other way if you want...doesn't bother me.

Spin what? wow. . . I guess its not worth engaging in conversation with you anymore then, lol.

Cool well, good luck with that

edit: CRA said the same thing btw, whats with the spinning. You two should stop watching things spinning. :)

[CRA]

Spin what? wow. . . I guess its not worth engaging in conversation with you anymore then, lol.

Cool well, good luck with that

edit: CRA said the same thing btw, whats with the spinning. You two should stop watching things spinning. :)

You don't wait until Smith retires or sucks to draft a WR you think could be a #1....you do that now. You hope he can be a 1 by the time Smith isn't the guy.

Reality is it is an offense league overall and we have a Newton team....he needs weapons and we need to plan short and long term for that....which is why drafting a WR now makes sense. We are long overdue in grooming our next number 1....that guy should of already been drafted. Our next number one doesn't have to look like AJ Green or get off to his start

And you are spinning rayzor's valid opinion into something it isn't...

[Razeyfingers]

You don't wait until Smith retires or sucks to draft a WR you think could be a #1....you do that now. You hope he can be a 1 by the time Smith isn't the guy.

Reality is it is an offense league overall and we have a Newton team....he needs weapons and we need to plan short and long term for that....which is why drafting a WR now makes sense. We are long overdue in grooming our next number 1....that guy should of already been drafted. Our next number one doesn't have to look like AJ Green or get off to his start

I think a better time to do that would be when Smith or LaFell get traded or retire or . . arent here anymore. One of them at least. If you're going to grab a guy at 14, he better be starting game 1. Not sometime in December. I have never heard of any team drafting like youre suggesting. I have asked anyone to give me an example and no one has.

We dont have a 3rd rounder, we have 5 picks right? I think. So we really need to hit on these first two.

Also, Rivera needs to win now, not next year after he gets fired, now.

edit: oh yeah and rookie contracts are cheaper now so its even more effective to find starters early. Youre paying a cheaper guy with less risk.

[CRA]

I think a better time to do that would be when Smith or LaFell get traded or retire or . . arent here anymore. One of them at least. If you're going to grab a guy at 14, he better be starting game 1. Not sometime in December. I have never heard of any team drafting like youre suggesting. I have asked anyone to give me an example and no one has.

We dont have a 3rd rounder, we have 5 picks right? I think. So we really need to hit on these first two.

Also, Rivera needs to win now, not next year after he gets fired, now.

edit: oh yeah and rookie contracts are cheaper now so its even more effective to find starters early. Youre paying a cheaper guy with less risk.

Then you entering a waiting period as you wait on a guy who may or may not develop...

Smiths's replacement should already be on the roster working to become the 1....not added when you have nothing.

And I agree Rivera needs to win now...which is why adding legit talent at WR that could be ready by midseason to make an impact is important. More important if Smith goes down this year and Cam has little to work with besides to versions of LaFell at WR.

A high drafted rookie WR is more likely to help Rivera than a rookie DT....if you go off recent history at the positions. Vet DT is the best way to win now on the DL if Rivera.

WR, S, CB IMO will be the targets early on....unless a BPA just smacks us in the face. There is a reason we are bringing in all these WRs to look at and very few DTs....

[koolkatluke]

1. You didn't answer the simple question....you answered a different one. You said a WR in this class couldn't outperform LaFell...and I asked you to name the last class that didn't have a WR produce above get he has (NOT name a WR who didn't out perform him)

2. You are asking me to find you something that was widely discussed and made a avalaible on this very message board...maybe when I am not on my phone I will

1. That's a broad question with a lot of variables. Are we not taking the situation they were in or the number of opportunities they had to make plays compared to Lafell?

example

TY Hilton outperformed Lafell but he was in a different offenses and his QB attempted 100 more passes then Cam. Does this factor in to your question?

[Razeyfingers]

Then you entering a waiting period as you wait on a guy who may or may not develop...

Smiths's replacement should already be on the roster working to become the 1....not added when you have nothing.

And I agree Rivera needs to win now...which is why adding legit talent at WR that could be ready by midseason to make an impact is important. More important if Smith goes down this year and Cam has little to work with besides to versions of LaFell at WR.

A high drafted rookie WR is more likely to help Rivera than a rookie DT....if you go off recent history at the positions. Vet DT is the best way to win now on the DL if Rivera.

WR, S, CB IMO will be the targets early on....unless a BPA just smacks us in the face. There is a reason we are bringing in all these WRs to look at and very few DTs....

Smith's replacement will come when Smith is not a 1 or 2 and LaFell isnt a 1 or a 2 . . or isnt here anymore. With your rational of needing time to develop a WR then why wont you wait for a DT?

AJ Green didnt need time to develop and there are plenty of other 1st round WR as examples that weren't top 5's.. . . and Suh helped the Lions tremendously and there are plenty of other examples of DT's who have come in and played well.

Just because there is more risk to drafting a DT early doesnt excuse the Panthers to take a WR. The risk of needing that DT is still there and any candidate is just as much of a gamble. The risk hasnt gone anywhere just because you decided to ignore it.

[poorboysrev]

I think a better time to do that would be when Smith or LaFell get traded or retire or . . arent here anymore. One of them at least. If you're going to grab a guy at 14, he better be starting game 1. Not sometime in December. I have never heard of any team drafting like youre suggesting. I have asked anyone to give me an example and no one has.

We dont have a 3rd rounder, we have 5 picks right? I think. So we really need to hit on these first two.

Also, Rivera needs to win now, not next year after he gets fired, now.

edit: oh yeah and rookie contracts are cheaper now so its even more effective to find starters early. Youre paying a cheaper guy with less risk.

I almost don't even know where to start on that line of thought...If you wait until Steve retires then we will have to wait thru a rookies learning curve whether it's 6 games or 20. And Cam will be screwed in the interim. When Wr's can't get open QB's look bad, that shakes their confidence, and makes the fanbase start calling for the backup QB,.... BAD. If Steve goes down with injury the same things will happen.

I believe Hopkins, Hunter, and a couple others would overtake Lafell by mid to late season. IF they don't because the rookie pushes Lafell like Stewart pushed Dwill then that's still a good thing. You would have 2 quality Wr's with Steve Smith for 1 or 2 seasons and we would be better prepared for his retirement.

As far as examples how about the Vikings drafting Randy Moss while Chris Carter was still playing at a high level. The Niners took T.O(2nd rd) while Rice was still playing, The Packers took Jennings(2nd) while Driver was in his prime and they had a strong passing game already, Ravens took Torry Smith when already had Boldin. Cardinals took Fitzgerald when they had Boldin. I mean I can keep going here. Even we took fug face Keary Colbert when we had Steve Smith and Moose. You want your number 1 to help groom his replacement.

A rookie Wideout has just as much chance of beating Lafell out as a rookie DT has of beating out Dwan and company. And a rookie playing as our 3rd receiver would contribute as much as a 3rd or 4th DT in the rotation or a 4th CB. DT is the highest bust rate position in the 1st rd. If we end up drafting a Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, Fairley did we really help the team get better? We have made the same mistake with Steve that Houston made with Andre Johnson. Because he is talented we have been ok with our other receivers being average. And that is a mistake.

[koolkatluke]

Then you entering a waiting period as you wait on a guy who may or may not develop...

Smiths's replacement should already be on the roster working to become the 1....not added when you have nothing.

And I agree Rivera needs to win now...which is why adding legit talent at WR that could be ready by midseason to make an impact is important. More important if Smith goes down this year and Cam has little to work with besides to versions of LaFell at WR.

A high drafted rookie WR is more likely to help Rivera than a rookie DT....if you go off recent history at the positions. Vet DT is the best way to win now on the DL if Rivera.

WR, S, CB IMO will be the targets early on....unless a BPA just smacks us in the face. There is a reason we are bringing in all these WRs to look at and very few DTs....

This whole post is your opinion based on no Facts.

Rivera could be gone by midseason. Why would he wait to have a starter by midseason? Which is a big if all together.