Interesting interview with Mike Tannenbaum on Sirius today.

[poorboysrev]

Im not short sighting receiver at all. There is a very real need for someone to step up there. If I had to roll dice. . I would say between Ginn, Hixon, Gettis, Pilares, and the others that there is a chance any of them could step up. Im excited to see what happens in training camp.

. . .and my point was exactly that we knew Moose was leaving and needed a 2 unlike now when we have LaFell. What do you mean how is that different? Its completely different now. The Niners drafted TO to step in at 2 right then not later that year or the year after that. Thats what I mean. We have Steve Smith and LaFell, they are starters. How much are you going to upgrade with anyone in the draft? People keep saying "they can develop", yes they can when we have snaps available for them to take. Right now we dont have that . . just like every other team in history who didnt draft a receiver at 14 or higher to sit and develop behind their starters.

How about DT? Everyone says DT's struggle in their first year like they played football themselves. Sure its hard to transition to just like Safety, Corner, Tackle, Guard, and pretty much anything besides RB including . . yes WR.

Of course he's not gonna play 100% of the snaps in the game, lols 100% of his snaps is not the same thing as 100% snaps in the game. I mean that he will be in the rotation as the premier guy because Fua blows. You understand that Fua will be brushed aside much faster than LaFell would right?

How about Martin in the backfield again? Safety is another spot that we are in desperate need of. How about corner? We just lost the only good player we had there as well? Is Thomas gonna shut down Fitz like Gamble did, no. Is Thomas gonna shutdown Jennings like Gamble did, no. Can Thomas tackle like Gamble could in the open field, no. So I think we could use some help there as well.

NO AGAIN. We knew we had Moose for 1 more season when we took Keary. We have 1 year, 2 at most witth Steve. How is that not the same thing?

You act like number 3 WR's don't get snaps. They do. And IF/When our rookie shows more playmaking ability then Lafell he will earn more.

I don't consider Fua a starter. Even if we don't get another Dt he will be baten our by Cole and Kearse barring HUGE improvement on his part. There are still good vet DT's out there also who will be had on the cheap.

And yes I likr Thomas. Will he be the cover guy Gamble was maybe not, but I like his tackling and attitude better. Gamble was never a great tackler and played soft. You might want to rethink that part.

We brought in 2 vet corners and a safety. Not saying we shouldn't address those but we did add insurance. FA strong safeties are easy to find...Hello Marlon McCree..Chris Harris(trade yes but see the point?)Do you know who that is? haha jk

Again not saying not to address DT, secondary or OG. I just think it's ALOT easier to find guys to fill those holes in Free Agency than a WR with potential to be our number 1. We have been waiting for WR's to step up for YEARS now. I don't see how you could think Ginn and company is going to do something they've never done before. If you leave it as is Steve, Lafell and Hixon are your 3 wideoute and Steve is old, Lafell is inconsistent and Hixon is injury prone to boot. Yes we could strike gold with one of our scrubs but I could also win the lottery. You pray for the best but plan for the worst. Losing Steve with out WR's as is will be the worst case scenario.

[koolkatluke]

ok, who are the 6 busts at WR....

DHB, Ginn, Davis....and?

And it isn't close in terms of which teams have parted with the DTs vs WRs already

Anthony Gonzalez, Robert Meachem and Jonathan Baldwin

And their is only 5 DT since 2007 not on the team that drafted them. Just like the WR.

[poorboysrev]

Because we have 33 year old Dwan Edwards and .......................................

Help me out here.

You answered none of my quite factual questions. As for your point about Dwan...AGAIN where did I say don't address DT. or even not to draft 1 at 14 if that is the BPA? Anywhere? No. You do understand that a rookie DT could suck ass the first 8 games right? Just like Amini did. Will they eventually turn it on? Yeah sure hopefully but just because we draft one that doesn't necessaily fix squat.

So AGAIN I ask you...Why are Gett and Rivera bringing in more WR's than any other positions? Do you seriously believe they are smokescreening? Or maybe, just maybe do they disagree with your assessment or our WR corp? If what CRA and I are saying is so stupid, then why are the professionals looking at so many WR's?

You make some good points at times man but you are one stubborn, brow beating mofo :startle:

[koolkatluke]

NO AGAIN. We knew we had Moose for 1 more season when we took Keary. We have 1 year, 2 at most witth Steve. How is that not the same thing?

You act like number 3 WR's don't get snaps. They do. And IF/When our rookie shows more playmaking ability then Lafell he will earn more.

I don't consider Fua a starter. Even if we don't get another Dt he will be baten our by Cole and Kearse barring HUGE improvement on his part. There are still good vet DT's out there also who will be had on the cheap.

And yes I likr Thomas. Will he be the cover guy Gamble was maybe not, but I like his tackling and attitude better. Gamble was never a great tackler and played soft. You might want to rethink that part.

We brought in 2 vet corners and a safety. Not saying we shouldn't address those but we did add insurance. FA strong safeties are easy to find...Hello Marlon McCree..Chris Harris(trade yes but see the point?)Do you know who that is? haha jk

Again not saying not to address DT, secondary or OG. I just think it's ALOT easier to find guys to fill those holes in Free Agency than a WR with potential to be our number 1. We have been waiting for WR's to step up for YEARS now. I don't see how you could think Ginn and company is going to do something they've never done before. If you leave it as is Steve, Lafell and Hixon are your 3 wideoute and Steve is old, Lafell is inconsistent and Hixon is injury prone to boot. Yes we could strike gold with one of our scrubs but I could also win the lottery. You pray for the best but plan for the worst. Losing Steve with out WR's as is will be the worst case scenario.

You have seriously made a case for drafting a WR by using the same reasons we should draft other position.

1. Hixon - Injury Prone = So what is Cole?? Who has missed a 11/2 out of football because of injuries.

2. We've signed player for the secondary. = We've signed some WR as well.

How in the hell do you have more faith in the secondary and DT's on this roster then the WR??

Just a question in your mind who has performed better for this team the last 2-3 years? The Wr's -The Dt's or the Secondary.

[koolkatluke]

You answered none of my quite factual questions. As for your point about Dwan...AGAIN where did I say don't address DT. or even not to draft 1 at 14 if that is the BPA? Anywhere? No. You do understand that a rookie DT could suck ass the first 8 games right? Just like Amini did. Will they eventually turn it on? Yeah sure hopefully but just because we draft one that doesn't necessaily fix squat.

So AGAIN I ask you...Why are Gett and Rivera bringing in more WR's than any other positions? Do you seriously believe they are smokescreening? Or maybe, just maybe do they disagree with your assessment or our WR corp? If what CRA and I are saying is so stupid, then why are the professionals looking at so many WR's?

You make some good points at times man but you are one stubborn, brow beating mofo :startle:

Every Position can suck for the first 8 games so that argument can go for any position we draft.

The differences is we have better depth at WR then we do at DT and the secondary.

And again I don't know Gettlemen's method neither do you. I don't they are looking at WR like this.

But it doesn't change the fact that I would be a little disappointed in this new FO for spending so much of our resources on 1 position.

[CRA]

Anthony Gonzalez, Robert Meachem and Jonathan Baldwin

And their is only 5 DT since 2007 not on the team that drafted them. Just like the WR.

Okoye

Carricker

Harrell

Dorsey

Ellis

Balmer

6 DTs from 07-10...and those are just the ones teams parted with....which doesn't include all the DT busts

[koolkatluke]

Okoye

Carricker

Harrell

Dorsey

Ellis

Balmer

6 DTs from 07-10...and those are just the ones teams parted with....which doesn't include all the DT busts

Dude there were 3 to 4 more DT drafted in that time span and you want to make a stand on a 5 to 6 difference???

5 WR not on the team that drafted them compared to 6 DT not on the team that drafted them. But the there were more DT's drafted do you not see the problem here with the point your trying to make???

Then there is one more bust on the DT side and that is Perry Jerry. But again more DT's have been drafted.

You're not making a good point here. To be fair the bust factor of these 2 position since 2007 is about the same.

[poorboysrev]

You have seriously made a case for drafting a WR by using the same reasons we should draft other position.

1. Hixon - Injury Prone = So what is Cole?? Who has missed a 11/2 out of football because of injuries.

2. We've signed player for the secondary. = We've signed some WR as well.

How in the hell do you have more faith in the secondary and DT's on this roster then the WR??

Just a question in your mind who has performed better for this team the last 2-3 years? The Wr's -The Dt's or the Secondary.

AGAIN, Where did I say not to address DT? If they take one 1 or 2 or with a vet, any of that I am good with it and it is needed. I just want a WR in the first 2 rds to go with them. If we can get Hunter/Hopkins and a DT/secondary player with the other pick whether 1st or 2nd then fill the other with a vet I consider that a good offseason. Plus a Guard, definitely, just dont want another rookie.

We can go circles on this one all day. Steve Smith was elite and is still very good. The closest thing to him was Gamble in the secondary. The secondary(minus Gamble) I actually prefer to our Wr's minus Steve as is right now. To me if Steve goes down with our Wr's as is we will be in HUGE trouble. Lafell had the(kinda) success he had with Steve drawing double teams. Without Steve what happens? Lafell, Hixon(if healthy) #2, pilares? That is ugly and we lose. Period. Cam will struggle and our fans will immediately jump on him. He is the franchise at this point gotta protect him.

I'm not in love with our secondary but we WON games with them minus Gamble and now we added 2 vets that played for Rivera before so I know we can win with them even if not ideal.

As far as DT I think we just need a runstuffer beside Dwan. Basically what Ron Edwards was suppose to be. Whether it's a 1st or 2nd pick or a FA I don't care as long as they address it, and I have faith they will.

I think Hunter/Hopkins/ maybe a couple others can POSSIBLY be a #1 or at least a very good #2 which is harder to find in FA then DT, OG, and SS. JMO

AGAIN...A question for you...IF your SO right about your evaluation of the team then WHY is the coaching staff talking to so many WR's?

AGAIN...not saying we draft WR and ignore other needs just think we can get one and still address those needs too

[poorboysrev]

Every Position can suck for the first 8 games so that argument can go for any position we draft.

The differences is we have better depth at WR then we do at DT and the secondary.

And again I don't know Gettlemen's method neither do you. I don't they are looking at WR like this.

But it doesn't change the fact that I would be a little disappointed in this new FO for spending so much of our resources on 1 position.

I simply said that to say if it takes a DT or a WR 8 weeks or so to have impact it is no different, of course any position could suck or take a long time to adjust. I also mad a point about DT's rotating so if our rookie is the 3rd DT for the first half of the season it's not much different than a WR trying to crack the top 2.

There are threads on this forum with people tracking our visits. WR is WAY ahead of the other positions so to me that means they are concerned about it. They brought in 2 CB's, Captain, and Oakland's SS. So they have addressed the secondary better than WR. We brought in

Hixon. Ginn is a returner, nothing more. DT I agree needs upgrading one way or another. So if we draft a WR 1st or 2nd and signed Hixon how is that overkill?

I guess to see my side at all you have to know that I see Steve as a bandaid at this point. Same as Dwan. With not much behind him at all. Cam having a go to guy is important to me so that he develops into the elite QB we need him to be to be an annual contender. His development is what will get us there...moreso than any defense(these days). Just like Favre did for the Pack, now Rodgers does, Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Eli. I want that kind of consistency for the Panthers. To me that starts and ends with Cam first. And for him to get there he needs his go to guys and oline. A good D will help us get to the table but the only way we are becoming one of the LEGIT teams is Cam becoming one of those guys.

[koolkatluke]

AGAIN, Where did I say not to address DT? If they take one 1 or 2 or with a vet, any of that I am good with it and it is needed. I just want a WR in the first 2 rds to go with them. If we can get Hunter/Hopkins and a DT/secondary player with the other pick whether 1st or 2nd then fill the other with a vet I consider that a good offseason. Plus a Guard, definitely, just dont want another rookie.

We can go circles on this one all day. Steve Smith was elite and is still very good. The closest thing to him was Gamble in the secondary. The secondary(minus Gamble) I actually prefer to our Wr's minus Steve as is right now. To me if Steve goes down with our Wr's as is we will be in HUGE trouble. Lafell had the(kinda) success he had with Steve drawing double teams. Without Steve what happens? Lafell, Hixon(if healthy) #2, pilares? That is ugly and we lose. Period. Cam will struggle and our fans will immediately jump on him. He is the franchise at this point gotta protect him.

I'm not in love with our secondary but we WON games with them minus Gamble and now we added 2 vets that played for Rivera before so I know we can win with them even if not ideal.

As far as DT I think we just need a runstuffer beside Dwan. Basically what Ron Edwards was suppose to be. Whether it's a 1st or 2nd pick or a FA I don't care as long as they address it, and I have faith they will.

I think Hunter/Hopkins/ maybe a couple others can POSSIBLY be a #1 or at least a very good #2 which is harder to find in FA then DT, OG, and SS. JMO

AGAIN...A question for you...IF your SO right about your evaluation of the team then WHY is the coaching staff talking to so many WR's?

AGAIN...not saying we draft WR and ignore other needs just think we can get one and still address those needs too

Again I don't know why they are looking at WR and signing them. But if they want to go thru another 2011. They won't be here long.

Another thing I can't agree with you on is this Idea we can get WR easier then DT in FA.

These were the DT's in FA

http://www.walterfoo...gents2013DT.php

These were the WR's

http://www.walterfoo...gents2013WR.php

It's about equal in my opinion.

Last you do understand the defense cost us 4 games this year.

Atlanta

Chicago

Tampa bay (2nd game)

KC

If our defense could have held a lead in the last 2mins of a game and stopped Brady F"n Quinn. We would have had a 11-5 record and been in the playoffs.

[koolkatluke]

I simply said that to say if it takes a DT or a WR 8 weeks or so to have impact it is no different, of course any position could suck or take a long time to adjust. I also mad a point about DT's rotating so if our rookie is the 3rd DT for the first half of the season it's not much different than a WR trying to crack the top 2.

There are threads on this forum with people tracking our visits. WR is WAY ahead of the other positions so to me that means they are concerned about it. They brought in 2 CB's, Captain, and Oakland's SS. So they have addressed the secondary better than WR. We brought in

Hixon. Ginn is a returner, nothing more. DT I agree needs upgrading one way or another. So if we draft a WR 1st or 2nd and signed Hixon how is that overkill?

I guess to see my side at all you have to know that I see Steve as a bandaid at this point. Same as Dwan. With not much behind him at all. Cam having a go to guy is important to me so that he develops into the elite QB we need him to be to be an annual contender. His development is what will get us there...moreso than any defense(these days). Just like Favre did for the Pack, now Rodgers does, Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Eli. I want that kind of consistency for the Panthers. To me that starts and ends with Cam first. And for him to get there he needs his go to guys and oline. A good D will help us get to the table but the only way we are becoming one of the LEGIT teams is Cam becoming one of those guys.

1. If we draft a DT who is he the 3rd DT to exactly??

2. It's way different depending on the offense. Since we don't run a offense like the Saints, Packers and Pat's. We won't be throwing the ball 70% of the time. Meaning we're not getting a lot of impact out of a 3rd WR.

3. How is Mitchell, Florence, and Moore signing addressing the secondary needs but Hixon and Ginn signing don't address our Wr's need??? IMO neither need has been fixed or addressed.

4. I think Steve has 2 years left which is enough time to find a replacement. I don't think Dwan is near the player Steve is in the 1st place. And we can't expect him to have the same production this year from him. He had his best season ever in a 8 year career. His history doesn't show that level of play will happen every season. Steve history speaks for itself. And nobody in the secondary has any great history to talk about.

[poorboysrev]

The offense cost us several games too. Yea ALOT of that was Chud but also our WR's(Murphy in particular) cost us with some key drops. Hixon is an upgrade over Murphy if he stays healthy. I would just like to see Steve on the field for a year or 2 with a Hopkins or Hunter to mentor and get ready to be the guy instead of having to come in as a rookie when Steve is gone. What I meant about Dt is it's easier to find a cheaper one in FA that can be your 1 or 2 if you have to than a WR. Unless we're going to fork out for Lloyd, which I just don't see. It does seem like the Panthers are trying to trade back so I think we can address both. If we took one of your 1st or 2n rd DT's and got Hopkins/Hunter and a good CB/S would you really consider that a bad draft?

[CRA]

Again I don't know why they are looking at WR and signing them. But if they want to go thru another 2011. They won't be here long.

Another thing I can't agree with you on is this Idea we can get WR easier then DT in FA.

These were the DT's in FA

http://www.walterfoo...gents2013DT.php

These were the WR's

http://www.walterfoo...gents2013WR.php

It's about equal in my opinion.

Last you do understand the defense cost us 4 games this year.

Atlanta

Chicago

Tampa bay (2nd game)

KC

If our defense could have held a lead in the last 2mins of a game and stopped Brady F"n Quinn. We would have had a 11-5 record and been in the playoffs.

Offense cost as as well.....

and you can argue the secondary signifcantly more than our DTs is why our D lost us some of those games.....basically Nakamura/Norman.

[koolkatluke]

The offense cost us several games too. Yea ALOT of that was Chud but also our WR's(Murphy in particular) cost us with some key drops. Hixon is an upgrade over Murphy if he stays healthy. I would just like to see Steve on the field for a year or 2 with a Hopkins or Hunter to mentor and get ready to be the guy instead of having to come in as a rookie when Steve is gone. What I meant about Dt is it's easier to find a cheaper one in FA that can be your 1 or 2 if you have to than a WR. Unless we're going to fork out for Lloyd, which I just don't see. It does seem like the Panthers are trying to trade back so I think we can address both. If we took one of your 1st or 2n rd DT's and got Hopkins/Hunter and a good CB/S would you really consider that a bad draft?

The offense cost us 2 games and none of that was the WR's fault.

1st Tampa Game was Chud's bad Game plan and giving up on the run way to early.

2nd Seattle where our RB's fumbled on our side of the field giving easy scores to the Seahawks. Then Cam missed a wide open Hardstock in the endzone..

Neither of those loses were our WR's fault.