Keenan Allen Pro Day Tommorow.

[panther4life]

The injury concerns are a big deal especially given our history. And when have we ever had a receiver make a big impact year 1?? Smith?? Nope...... Moose? Nope. Anyone? Nope

But an injured guy who may be months away from even practicing is going to be the first???

Color me skeptical.

So are you suggesting there is a jinx or curse in panther land saying its impossible to draft a successful rookie receiver?

Your basing our history off of 3 2nd round receivers and 1 1st rounder 27th overall)since 95.

That's silly logic IMO. If we went by that logic then we should zoom in on a LB or RB as we have had better rookie impact from those positions than any other.

If we find a noise or smitty in the first wouldn't that be a success anyway? We need to start grooming someone to replace Smith instead of being stuck overpaying a FA receiver or expecting a rookie to come in and immediately be the new # 1.

Just sounds like you don't like him as a prospect and that's fine. The problem is you are using reasons totally unrelated to him to justify your stance.

Funny thing is, if Allen was completely healthy and ran a 4.4 then I don't think anyone would believe he'd be there at 14 anyway.

Every prospect has causes for concern and lower the pick the more amplified the concerns are.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Seriously..to prove Keenan Allen is fast enough we have a game against the NFL stacked Washington huskies?

When these highlights are questionable maybe he wont be as good as Dewayne Jarrett.

[panthers55]

So are you suggesting there is a jinx or curse in panther land saying its impossible to draft a successful rookie receiver?

Your basing our history off of 3 2nd round receivers and 1 1st rounder 27th overall)since 95.

That's silly logic IMO. If we went by that logic then we should zoom in on a LB or RB as we have had better rookie impact from those positions than any other.

If we find a noise or smitty in the first wouldn't that be a success anyway? We need to start grooming someone to replace Smith instead of being stuck overpaying a FA receiver or expecting a rookie to come in and immediately be the new # 1.

Just sounds like you don't like him as a prospect and that's fine. The problem is you are using reasons totally unrelated to him to justify your stance.

Funny thing is, if Allen was completely healthy and ran a 4.4 then I don't think anyone would believe he'd be there at 14 anyway.

Every prospect has causes for concern and lower the pick the more amplified the concerns are.

Of course I am not suggesting there is a jinx in us picking receivers in the draft, where did you get that stupid idea. Your whole premise and post is built off faulty reading comprehension and a leap in convoluted logic I never said. It would be stupid logic to say that, and you are the one who said it not me. You Allen nut huggers need to take a few deep breaths and actually see what people are saying before going off on a ridiculous tangent to champion your injured warrior.

But lets review what I did say to make it easy for you.

So I said that we need to avoid injured players or guys with injury histories because our experience has been lately that they struggle to play right away and some of them like Otah or Hogan played very little for us. Stupid?? No.

And if we have 5 players in the draft, your coach is on the hotseat and we need to draft an impact player in the first we should not take a receiver who often needs a few years to learn the position in order to perform at a high level. We should avoid taking a flier on a rookie receiver who is injured and isn't even the highest rated receiver in the draft on many boards particularly if he isn't Julio Jones or an AJ Greene and is a can't miss pick who is 100% healthy. Stupid??? No.....

And to the point that if he ran a 4.4 everyone would be fine with it. Of course they would. If he ran a 4.4 then it would be faster than he ever been recorded running and it would show he was 100% recovered and not injured going into the draft. He would be one of the best receiver prospects in the draft and as I said earlier would be a good option at 14.

But he didn't, and he is still rehabbing and this is a non surgery injury which appears to taking quite a bit of time to heal. So some of us are reticent to pull the trigger on him.

Stupid??? No.......

Now take a few breaths, read what I actually said, and then respond to avoid looking like a confused Alllen Groupie this time.

[C47]

........ double post

[C47]

[DaCityKats]

you can judge off tape,or project how fast a prospect may run. it is a projection, that is why a lot of time people say he should run well or he is a 4.5 guy before a individual runs a 40. how many times have a prospect came out, and ran a faster 40 then people expected. but then when you watch him in the game, he doesnt play now where near that speed. or vice versa, people thought Kendall Wright was a burner but he ran a 4.61 what the combine. look at him on tape, he plays at 4.4 speed.

[panthers55]

Anyone want to look at the past 10 years and see how many first round rookie receivers outside of the top 10 made significant contributions for their team in their rookie year Why not use 1000 yards since that assumes they start and average roughly 60 yards a game. I won't even quantify it with how many first round rookie receivers who were injured at draft time outside of the top 10 made significant contributions.

I am going out on a limb and say none.

And before you say that we need to look for the long term, tell that to Rivera who is on the hot seat and Gettleman who needs to follow up the last 2 years where we had guys who won the rookie of the year award on their side of the ball. Like I said Allen would be a good pick if healthy of if we had multiple 1st round picks like Minnesota. But he isn't and we don't. We need someone at 14 who will start this year not in a few years.

[rayzor]

not sure why people hold certain positions to a higher standard than others. if he isn't a julio jones or aj green then you shouldn't draft him at 14. unless he's a sure thing WR prospect then you stay away...but at 14 there are no sure thing WRs. someone their caliber wouldn't last that long so pretty much no WR should ever be drafted around that spot. it's ridiculous. it's like saying that no DT should be drafted at 14 unless they are suh-like. you could go on and on.

the truth is, if you don't like the idea of a certain pick at a position or you just have another one or direction in mind, you're going to put all kinds of unrealistic expectations on the position that you wouldn't for the one(s) you want that year. people did the same thing with QB when we were talking about cam, talking about how far back you could set the team if you picked the wrong one and how you should only go with the low risk sure thing, esp. with the #1 pick and that they should be the most established and pro-ready blah blah blah...

point is, we all have inconsistencies and we are all guilty of the double standard when advocating for or against certain players or positions. people arguing for WR will use the same arguments for it that others will for DTs or whatever and the justifications and urgency for the pick will be very similar.

just an observation.

[C47]

you can judge off tape,or project how fast a prospect may run. it is a projection, that is why a lot of time people say he should run well or he is a 4.5 guy before a individual runs a 40. how many times have a prospect came out, and ran a faster 40 then people expected. but then when you watch him in the game, he doesnt play now where near that speed. or vice versa, people thought Kendall Wright was a burner but he ran a 4.61 what the combine. look at him on tape, he plays at 4.4 speed.

Exactly, just look at Ryan Swope for example....

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Being able to tell if one runs a 4.5 or 4.7 is irellevant. The difference between a 4.4 WR and 4.7 wr with similar abilities is usually pretty apparent when you watch a game. When you watch a fast guy like Austin you think 4.4ish type speed as you would with Patterson or Ace Sanders(4.5-4.6actual) Combine just confirms he is what I see.

In watching Allen play he has to push off at the college level to gain seperation or catches. check out the vaunted Standford secondary in the highlights a few pages back.

I think what huddlers are falling in love with is that Allen has the prototype size and body control you want in a WR but I have trouble distinguishing what makes him different from a LaFell, Nanee(much better hands of course)or Hixon type WR.

We have a bunch or WRs that can run around a hope for a blown coverage. But to stress and threaten the seams of a defense on every play we do not.

In 2011 defenses learned to bracket Smitty while our other Wrs failed to seperate consistantly in a WR friendly-rules league.

In 2012 Louis Murphy and Lafell were having trouble gaining seperation while Smitty was covered.

Allen has the same issues that SC's Alshon Jefferyhad last season despite pulling a 4.4 at his pro day without an injury.

[koolkatluke]

Being able to tell if one runs a 4.5 or 4.7 is irellevant. The difference between a 4.4 WR and 4.7 wr with similar abilities is usually pretty apparent when you watch a game. When you watch a fast guy like Austin you think 4.4ish type speed as you would with Patterson or Ace Sanders(4.5-4.6actual) Combine just confirms he is what I see.

In watching Allen play he has to push off at the college level to gain seperation or catches. check out the vaunted Standford secondary in the highlights a few pages back.

I think what huddlers are falling in love with is that Allen has the prototype size and body control you want in a WR but I have trouble distinguishing what makes him different from a LaFell, Nanee(much better hands of course)or Hixon type WR.

We have a bunch or WRs that can run around a hope for a blown coverage. But to stress and threaten the seams of a defense on every play we do not.

In 2011 defenses learned to bracket Smitty while our other Wrs failed to seperate consistantly in a WR friendly-rules league.

In 2012 Louis Murphy and Lafell were having trouble gaining seperation while Smitty was covered.

Allen has the same issues that SC's Alshon Jefferyhad last season despite pulling a 4.4 at his pro day without an injury.

Again you keep making these statements about WR's not getting separation with little to no proof to back it up.

[panthers55]

not sure why people hold certain positions to a higher standard than others. if he isn't a julio jones or aj green then you shouldn't draft him at 14. unless he's a sure thing WR prospect then you stay away...but at 14 there are no sure thing WRs. someone their caliber wouldn't last that long so pretty much no WR should ever be drafted around that spot. it's ridiculous. it's like saying that no DT should be drafted at 14 unless they are suh-like. you could go on and on.

the truth is, if you don't like the idea of a certain pick at a position or you just have another one or direction in mind, you're going to put all kinds of unrealistic expectations on the position that you wouldn't for the one(s) you want that year. people did the same thing with QB when we were talking about cam, talking about how far back you could set the team if you picked the wrong one and how you should only go with the low risk sure thing, esp. with the #1 pick and that they should be the most established and pro-ready blah blah blah...

point is, we all have inconsistencies and we are all guilty of the double standard when advocating for or against certain players or positions. people arguing for WR will use the same arguments for it that others will for DTs or whatever and the justifications and urgency for the pick will be very similar.

just an observation.

You might put unreasonable expectations on a position, I don't think I am. If you draft a guy at 14 and you have 5 picks you have to hit on your first and second rounder, particularly if you have little wiggle room in free agency and are cap strapped. So if that is the case then you pick first rounders at positions of need who are going to start or contribute day 1 not a few years down the road. We don't have the luxury we did with Davis to draft a guy at 14 and develop him for a few years. We need a starter or impact guy. And there are those guys in the draft this year. Fluker at right tackle would be a plug and play guy right away. We move Bell inside and offensive line is solved right away. We find a NT in the draft and the defensive line is solved right away. We get a starting caliber corner or safety that can start we solve the secondary right away. Truth is that one of the positions where we don't need an immediate starter and can go with what we have is receiver. And is it unreasonable to pick a guy who is healthy instead of a maybe who is no better than 4 or 5 guys out there who is healthy?? I don't think so. Just an observation....................

[SmashNDash]

Again you keep making these statements about WR's not getting separation with little to no proof to back it up.

Go watch the Raiders game, it's the best example of no one being able to get open. It's a damn shame too because Murphy is a 4.4 guy, he just can't catch or run routes. Lafell always feels faster to me after the catch then he does in his routes, and if you watch the majority of his catches are drags accross zone coverages, his disappears when we play teams that run a lot of Man Defense(like the Raiders do).

[koolkatluke]

Go watch the Raiders game, it's the best example of no one being able to get open. It's a damn shame too because Murphy is a 4.4 guy, he just can't catch or run routes. Lafell always feels faster to me after the catch then he does in his routes, and if you watch the majority of his catches are drags accross zone coverages, his disappears when we play teams that run a lot of Man Defense(like the Raiders do).

I did watch that game and i notice more that the Oline couldn't Block. WR not getting separation wasn't near the problem as the Oline in that game.