Inconvenient Truth GM Edition(Hurney vs Gettleman)

[Firefox]

Some day when you are snowed-in or home with the flu, search the forum for "Hurney is a cap guru", "Hurney is one of the best in the league managing the cap", or something of the like.

You'll have the time of your life and be feeling better in no time.

[panther4life]

Some day when you are snowed-in or home with the flu, search the forum for "Hurney is a cap guru", "Hurney is one of the best in the league managing the cap", or something of the like.

You'll have the time of your life and be feeling better in no time.

I swear I did just that, and the first thread that comes on google is this. Classic.

or at least step down to a salary cap guru again.

This team really could use a firm authoritative figure at G.M. with a better pedigree of football knowledge. This team as a whole is lacking leadership in a major way. I understand the big cat likes to stay out of the limelight and I am totally ok and actually prefer that as well.

Hurney has caused major damage to this team by sacrificing the future with the trade for Everette Brown and now the one for A.E.

I didnt mind the trade up for Otah because we really were in the "win now" mind state at that point.

Things have since gone down hill and as Mr. Scott eluded to earlier we should have gotten rid of Fox this year. Hurney either didnt have the power, the balls,foresight, or some combination of these to pull the trigger.

I have lost faith in him as a G.M and his ability to properly handle our drafts.

We started to clean house with the players this year, now need to finish the job by cleaning out the front office

[L-TownCat]

First of all Rob Rogers the cap guy who at the very least assisted in setting these contracts up helped Gettleman navigate them. Fans on this message board called the moves that he made in advance, because they were no brainers.

How can you say these names he brought in are light years ahead of what Hurney looked for??

I agree with your bolded part.

I'm not attacking your post. I'm just providing my 2 cents much like yourself. However, the reason the new guys brought in are light years ahead is because the people we have signed have either had some success or experience to share. A quick search of most of our recent free agents are a hodge podge of nobodies that were cheap and seemingly just to pacify fans because they were areas of need. I'm not all that mad at hurney or excited a out gettelman. I guess my point is this is what we have and I can relate with this guy because he made the moves most of us wanted made. In the past too many fa periods passed with unfulfilled wishes. Lets just agree to support our new GM until he gives us reason not to.

[panther4life]

I'm not attacking your post. I'm just providing my 2 cents much like yourself. However, the reason the new guys brought in are light years ahead is because the people we have signed have either had some success or experience to share. A quick search of most of our recent free agents are a hodge podge of nobodies that were cheap and seemingly just to pacify fans because they were areas of need. I'm not all that mad at hurney or excited a out gettelman. I guess my point is this is what we have and I can relate with this guy because he made the moves most of us wanted made. In the past too many fa periods passed with unfulfilled wishes. Lets just agree to support our new GM until he gives us reason not to.

We are on the same page, if this was a tailgate conversation it wouldn't seem as tense.

Message boards are funny like that because you have your pie ***** posters who like to be snarky and poo without bringing anything of substance to the table amongst other silly stuff but I digress.

Anyway heres a cool story for you:

I just listened to your podcast with Szoke and thought you did an excellent job btw. Did you know about him adopting the homeless kid? Saw a link to that from Bill Voths twitter and somehow ended up on your podcast after coming to see if it was posted on the huddle already.

[carolina-chuck]

I NEVER TYPE IN ALL CAPS BUT BEFORE SOME OF YOU BLINDLY RAGE I NEED YOUR ATTENTION:

**THIS THREAD IS SIMPLY STATING I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY MOVES MADE THAT DISTINGUISH GETTLEMAN FROM HURNEY YET**

Maybe some of you guys can enlighten me on why I am wrong or maybe just maybe some of you will confirm the sentiments I have to be true. I am going to post rebuttals that I see forthcoming so I don't have to come back and address them later.

What changes have been made than can be attributed solely to Gettleman at this point?

He has the same head coach and the entire front office has remained intact from the scouts to the cap manager, to the directors of scouting and pro personnel.

So far Gettleman has added these guys from other teams:

Chase Blackburn

Drayton Florence

Tedd Ginn Jr.

Mike Mitchell

D.J Moore

Colin Cole

James Shaw

^^^

Can anyone of you say these are brilliant signings that would have never happened if Hurney was here? No you can't because they have not played a down for us yet and they are the exact bottom tier guys many would bitch about if Hurney was the one to sign them. It won't stop some of you from rejoicing about these just like it did not stop many of you who were jizzing over Nakumara signing last offseason.

Retained from the previous regime were

Dwan Edwards

Captain Munnerlyn

Jordan Senn

Derek Anderson

Ben Hartstock

Richie Brockel

^^^

minus Captain-all of those guys were brought in from other teams by Hurney. Hurney never paid those guys a dime more than Gettleman signed them for.

Some would argue that Hurney would have paid way too much for Munnerlyn if given the chance.

Really, as evidenced by what? Last 2 times I remember Nickel corners chasing more money than they deserved(Richard Marshall and Ricky Manning Jr.) Hurney let them walk.

As a matter of a fact many players were allowed to walk in the past for more money(previous to 2011) contrary to popular belief on here.

Mushin Muhammad,Will Witherspoon,Doug Evans, Deon Grant,Deshaun Foster, Marlon Mcree,and many others but thats just some names all of you should recognize.

2011 WAS JERRY RICHARDSON'S FAULT

Yes it was. He tanked 2010 and made us the worst team in football. Then to make matters worse the 90% of the handful of good players we had all became free agents in the same year! Hurney never let more than 2 core players hit the market at the same time ever before this. 6 of our 10 players worth keeping becoming free agents all at once was a major clusterfug that JR created and he's loving hearing the fan base blame Marty for his decisions.

In addition to the bad timing do you not think JR alienated a lot players without his lockout pie charts and such? The worst contracts are from the players who were the elite at their position in free agency that year (Charles Johnson, Jon Beason, and Deangelo WIlliams) and it wasn't even close.

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize the obvious that happened form 2009-11.

"Yea well Gettleman is a genius, he knows how to play hardball and get these players to sign 1 year contracts while he try's them out".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If only the above was unique to Gettleman and not a league wide phenomenon due to the flat cap. Hell I have read some silly reports suggest collusion amongst the owners because of this.

Btw, for you guys love him for signing captain to a 1 year deal, must have forgotten the original offer was for 3 years and more money. Just got lucky that he tested the market and we signed D.J Moore while he bullshitted around.

"But Gettleman got us out of cap hell and still managed to make some signings happen..jeez can't please everyone I guess"..

I am not dissatisfied with the jobe he's done so far. Just not overly surpised by any of the moves made either, nor do they scream to me ohhh yea we def. have a new GM now.

"P4L your an idiot if you can't see that Gettleman dug us out of cap hell and signed some brilliant new pieces and kept Huney's lucky finds"

First of all cutting Gamble and Ron Edwards were no brainers that were alley oops from Hurney/Rob Rogers as they did not cause pushing any dead money into the future and save 10.4 million alone. Fug according to Clayton in feb. were only 11.8 over to begin with.

Secondly the rest of the room was created by robbing peter to pay paul. Yep all the restructures that saved us money just pushed that money into the future cap hits. This is what originally coined the name "HURNEY MAGIC" before it became a sarcastic dig on him. They ended up being no brainers for both sides when evaluating them logically.

I'll leave you with this: All I am trying to say is quit over exaggerating whether it be in your praise of Gettleman or your hatred for Hurney. Way too early to make any firm judgments yet.

Gettleman has not fuged up on anything yet, so naturally that gives him a leg up on Hurney who had many shortcomings over his 10 years here. At the same token he has not done anything to give anyone reason to believe that he his as great as some of your are making him out to be, and in all fairness its too early for him to have earned major praise.

Remember how many of us(I know I did anyway) were pumped about the Rivera hire and the future of the franchise before we even played a down in 2011? Fast foward to 2 years later and I was leading the bandwagon to have his ass canned. .........Not saying things with Gettleman will end up the same way, just saying experience should tell us that it's too early to judge him for better or worse at this point.

Good post.

[CRA]

tl;dr

(If you don't see a difference already between Hurney and Gettleman, you are beyond help.)

In fairness...Gettlemen hasn't been here long enough to show he is better or worse than Hurney. The past few weeks do nothing really for the comparison...

People also want to compare Hurney at his worst (which you can easily argue was Richardson hand impacting it all)...to really Gettlemen doing little as some great contrast between the two.

Hurney would have cut Gamble and restructured Gross most likely.....and Hurney could always bring in no name and rejects to fill spots.

Gettlemen will show what he is over the next 3 years.....as of now...he hasn't shown much of anything.

[L-TownCat]

We are on the same page, if this was a tailgate conversation it wouldn't seem as tense.

Message boards are funny like that because you have your pie ***** posters who like to be snarky and poo without bringing anything of substance to the table amongst other silly stuff but I digress.

Anyway heres a cool story for you:

I just listened to your podcast with Szoke and thought you did an excellent job btw. Did you know about him adopting the homeless kid? Saw a link to that from Bill Voths twitter and somehow ended up on your podcast after coming to see if it was posted on the huddle already.

I did not know that. Thanks for the clip. If/when we get him back on the show ill bring that up. Thanks for the kudos! I try not to be snarky but sometimes it just comes off that way. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Always appreciated.

[CRA]

Also...lets be real...

Overwhelming majority of this board defended Hurney's full retard campaign near his end.

A lot the Gettlemen praise falls in line with the "he is our guy so has to be great" mindset. Same mindset that made Nakamura a great move....same mindset that makes some of these less than impressive moves by Gettlemen genius.

[TheRumGone]

Also...lets be real...

Overwhelming majority of this board defended Hurney's full retard campaign near his end.

A lot the Gettlemen praise falls in line with the "he is our guy so has to be great" mindset. Same mindset that made Nakamura a great move....same mindset that makes some of these less than impressive moves by Gettlemen genius.

What would you have done? I'm not trying to be a dick, just want to know.

[CRA]

What would you have done? I'm not trying to be a dick, just want to know.

Done about what? Gettlemen thus far?

I am not saying I would have done anything different than Gettlemen thus far...but you could easily argue outside of the Anderson cut Hurney-dawg could easily of mirrored the rest.

[TheRumGone]

same mindset that makes some of these less than impressive moves by Gettlemen genius.

That's why i asked, but you said you probably wouldn't have done anything different. I explained that people were so down on Hurney that people were probably over-exaggerating about Gettleman, using terms like "genius" or "impressive" when in actuality they are what good GM's do. We were starved for a good GM.

And I don't see how Hurney would have mirrored these moves, based on the facts.

[saX man]

I appreciate that Dave has wiggled about 22 million in the other direction this offseason without making any huge moves. 16 million over now around 6 million under.

There's no need to compare him yet or overanalyze anything in regards to Hurney.

[Lumps]

Also...lets be real...

Overwhelming majority of this board defended Hurney's full retard campaign near his end.

Hahah so true. I always got flamed bad for saying he sucks for a couple years here.

The biggest counter-argument was: Hurney never misses a first pick lolol

[CRA]

That's why i asked, but you said you probably wouldn't have done anything different. I explained that people were so down on Hurney that people were probably over-exaggerating about Gettleman, using terms like "genius" or "impressive" when in actuality they are what good GM's do. We were starved for a good GM.

And I don't see how Hurney would have mirrored these moves, based on the facts.

Maybe not mirrored the exact guys brought in but a comparable caliber of guys brought in....after he made the Gmable cut and some obvious restructures. Only the Anderson cut appears something outside Hurney's wheelhouse.

I don't think Hurney was a bad GM.....until Richardson put Fox in that weird window, then Richardson dictated how we handled the lockout, etc.

Gettlemen certainly hasn't proven to be as good as Hurney WAS when he first got here