Further evidence that WR trumps O-Line as a need (PFF edition).

[carpanfan96]

1. There are 9 routes in the WR route tree everybody pretty much runs the same patters when talking about offenses.

2. Our play types may resemble a lot of offense SD and others. But our playcaller did more to resemble Washington, Seattle, and San Fran. There is no fuging way you can sit here and say the fact that Cam can run didn't effect the playcalling. That a lot of plays and down and distance situation that would be throwing plays for Manning were running plays for Cam. So taking away attempts for WR.

Seattle doesn't run a West Coast offense

http://www.fieldgull...eahawks-offense

You might want to read this to it tells you how the West Coast and Coryell are closely related.

http://en.wikipedia....t_Coast_offense

West Coast Offense: Air Coryell

Bernie Kosar used the term to describe the offense formalized by Sid Gillman with the AFL Chargers in the 1960s and later by Don Coryell's St. Louis Cardinals and Chargers in the 1970s and 1980s. Al Davis, an assistant under Gillman, also carried his version to the Oakland Raiders, where his successors John Rauch, John Madden, and Tom Flores continued to employ and expand upon its basic principles. This is the "West Coast Offense" as Kosar originally used the term. However, it is now commonly referred to as the "Air Coryell" timed system, and instead the term West Coast Offense is usually used to describe Bill Walsh's system.

The offense uses a specific naming system, with the routes for wide receivers and tight ends receiving three digit numbers, and routes for backs having unique names. For example, a pass play in 3 digit form might be "Split Right 787 check swing, check V". (see Offensive Nomenclature). This provides an efficient way to communicate many different plays with minimal memorization. Conversely, the West Coast Offense could in theory have more freedom, since route combinations are not limited by 0-9 digits, but at the price of much more memorization required by the players.

Yep, just 9 route tree's based on depth, down and distance. WCO generally have more then that though, when you add in wiggles and other route variations. Then on top of that you have delay routes, option routes and so fourth that expand the tree way past the old school traditional 9.

Most of these variations actually come from the WCO offense that the 49ers used. It was designed for passes to go to a pre determined spot on the field and the routes were set up to get that one guy open.

When talking about the modern WCO compared to the Air Coryell the differences are staggering. I've actually posted a entire thing about it on here years ago. I know how everything is related, I've done the research on it before and knew a bunch about it before that.

The 49ers WCO, the one everyone thinks about now when talking about WCO is a horizontal passing attack meant to spread the defense out from sideline to sideline to open up running routes and to make the QB's job easier.

The Air Coryell offense is a deep, down the field attacking offense that relies on deep strikes, play action passing and power running.

Ground Chuck was based off of his team's strengths and was changed pretty much every year he was a coach, he just liked to run the ball and run it a lot. He mixed with some WCO, mixed it some traditional Air Coryell offense and even some E-perkins offense. Just depended on where he was at at the time and his players skill set.

As for the play calling, it was a mix of SD playbook and Auburns playbook. That was the Panther's offense, seriously it was that simple to determine where the plays came from. Most of the Auburn plays were designed runs or option plays, most of the passing cam from the SD playbook. Most of Cam's rookie season and the last 5 games of last season (when he took off passing wise) was mostly broken down into just the SD playbook with a few of the Auburn Run option and run plays mixed in.

It's a Shotgun, play action down the field passing attack which is what the Panther's offense looked like.

Further more, the differences in pass attempts is so far between the run option teams. It's obvious when looking at stats that Carolina was more of a Passing team while SF, Seattle and Washington were run first teams. 100 more attempts is a pretty wide margin.

[DaCityKats]

Do you have a list of them? I'd like to see who they are.

Tavon Austin, DeAndre Hopkins, Patton, Bailey and Allen that I know of off the top of my head

those guys plus Vols beat writer has said(twitter) we worked out Patterson and Hunter.also said CP had a shirt on that said im that guy while working out for the home team.

[SCP]

Meanwhile Bucky Brooks on NFLN is talking right now about Jonathan Cooper being a top 10 pick.

[carpanfan96]

Meanwhile Bucky Brooks on NFLN is talking right now about Jonathan Cooper being a top 10 pick.

A lot of scouts and teams have him rated higher then Warmack now, he effectively passed him with his workout's, combine and pro day.

[koolkatluke]

Yep, just 9 route tree's based on depth, down and distance. WCO generally have more then that though, when you add in wiggles and other route variations. Then on top of that you have delay routes, option routes and so fourth that expand the tree way past the old school traditional 9.

Most of these variations actually come from the WCO offense that the 49ers used. It was designed for passes to go to a pre determined spot on the field and the routes were set up to get that one guy open.

When talking about the modern WCO compared to the Air Coryell the differences are staggering. I've actually posted a entire thing about it on here years ago. I know how everything is related, I've done the research on it before and knew a bunch about it before that.

The 49ers WCO, the one everyone thinks about now when talking about WCO is a horizontal passing attack meant to spread the defense out from sideline to sideline to open up running routes and to make the QB's job easier.

The Air Coryell offense is a deep, down the field attacking offense that relies on deep strikes, play action passing and power running.

Ground Chuck was based off of his team's strengths and was changed pretty much every year he was a coach, he just liked to run the ball and run it a lot. He mixed with some WCO, mixed it some traditional Air Coryell offense and even some E-perkins offense. Just depended on where he was at at the time and his players skill set.

As for the play calling, it was a mix of SD playbook and Auburns playbook. That was the Panther's offense, seriously it was that simple to determine where the plays came from. Most of the Auburn plays were designed runs or option plays, most of the passing cam from the SD playbook. Most of Cam's rookie season and the last 5 games of last season (when he took off passing wise) was mostly broken down into just the SD playbook with a few of the Auburn Run option and run plays mixed in.

It's a Shotgun, play action down the field passing attack which is what the Panther's offense looked like.

Further more, the differences in pass attempts is so far between the run option teams. It's obvious when looking at stats that Carolina was more of a Passing team while SF, Seattle and Washington were run first teams. 100 more attempts is a pretty wide margin.

Well lets play your game.

Panthers had 462 rushing attempts. -

Giants had 409 rushing attempts - 53 play difference

49ers had 492 rushing attempts - 30 play difference

Seattle had 536 rushing attempts - 74 play difference

Redskins had 519 rushing attempts - 57 play difference

So in reality we are really no comparison to any team.

We had 462 rushing plays to 490 passing plays a balance offense. 28 play difference run to pass.

Giants 409 run plays to 539 passing plays. 130 play difference run to pass

49ers 492 run plays to 436 passing plays. 56 play difference run to pass.

Seattle 536 run plays to 405 pass plays. 131 play difference run to pass.

Redskins 519 run plays to 442 pass plays. 77 plays difference run to pass.

Now looking at these differences in the run to pass ratio can you really say the Giants had the closest comparison of our offense?

[carpanfan96]

Well lets play your game.

Panthers had 462 rushing attempts. -

Giants had 409 rushing attempts - 53 play difference

49ers had 492 rushing attempts - 30 play difference

Seattle had 536 rushing attempts - 74 play difference

Redskins had 519 rushing attempts - 57 play difference

So in reality we are really no comparison to any team.

We had 462 rushing plays to 490 passing plays a balance offense. 28 play difference run to pass.

Giants 409 run plays to 539 passing plays. 130 play difference run to pass

49ers 492 run plays to 436 passing plays. 56 play difference run to pass.

Seattle 536 run plays to 405 pass plays. 131 play difference run to pass.

Redskins 519 run plays to 442 pass plays. 77 plays difference run to pass.

Now looking at these differences in the run to pass ratio can you really say the Giants had the closest comparison of our offense?

Lol, okies the difference in yards between the Giants and Panthers is around 200 rushing yards. They had a more effective rushing attack then Carolina and there fore didn't need to rush the ball as much to get into the perfect passing downs.

These are just based on yards.

NY ranked 14th in rushing compared to Carolina at 9th

NY ranked 12th in Passing compared to Carolina at 16th

Total yards for NY is 355 per game compared to Carolina at 360 yards per game, they both had similar plays ran and yards per play. 988 - 968 plays with 5.9 average compared to a 5.8 average.

During the win streak at the end of the season, the Panther's average more passing attempts per game then they did during the other part of the season.

On top of those numbers, when I'm talking about offense. I'm talking about the system and the type of passing game that's employed by the two teams. It's more comparable between the Giants and Panther's then any of those other teams you've listed either now or earlier.

[koolkatluke]

Lol, okies the difference in yards between the Giants and Panthers is around 200 rushing yards. They had a more effective rushing attack then Carolina and there fore didn't need to rush the ball as much to get into the perfect passing downs.

These are just based on yards.

NY ranked 14th in rushing compared to Carolina at 9th

NY ranked 12th in Passing compared to Carolina at 16th

Total yards for NY is 355 per game compared to Carolina at 360 yards per game, they both had similar plays ran and yards per play. 988 - 968 plays with 5.9 average compared to a 5.8 average.

During the win streak at the end of the season, the Panther's average more passing attempts per game then they did during the other part of the season.

On top of those numbers, when I'm talking about offense. I'm talking about the system and the type of passing game that's employed by the two teams. It's more comparable between the Giants and Panther's then any of those other teams you've listed either now or earlier.

You can't discount the playcaller when talking scheme and team comparison.

The difference in the play you call in down and distance situation can not be look over when comparing teams.

You can say we run the same pass plays as the giants ( which all teams have around the same routes and patterns) but when the plays were called and use are more important.

Example a 3rd a 6 on the opponents 40 for The Panthers could be a pass or a run 50/50 chance of each. For the Giants it's a pass play most of the time.

[carpanfan96]

You can't discount the playcaller when talking scheme and team comparison.

The difference in the play you call in down and distance situation can not be look over when comparing teams.

You can say we run the same pass plays as the giants ( which all teams have around the same routes and patterns) but when the plays were called and use are more important.

Example a 3rd a 6 on the opponents 40 for The Panthers could be a pass or a run 50/50 chance of each. For the Giants it's a pass play most of the time.

It's been fun but I've got to start cooking dinner or breakfeast depending on your point of view.

I've just been messing with you for the last few posts because the comparison to the Redskins, Seahawks or 49ers was so off based because of the way the teams are ran play calling wise.

The best team really was the Giants, closest stats wise on both rushing and passing wise in the NFL. Any time you do a team to team comparison there's going to be differences and similarities, can't really do a comparison on run option teams though because the Panther's are ran so differently compared to the other ones.

Just to let you know, I gave the perfect attack with the Nicks information I posted earlier. He only had 53 catches for like 770 yards this past season.

[koolkatluke]

It's been fun but I've got to start cooking dinner or breakfeast depending on your point of view.

I've just been messing with you for the last few posts because the comparison to the Redskins, Seahawks or 49ers was so off based because of the way the teams are ran play calling wise.

The best team really was the Giants, closest stats wise on both rushing and passing wise in the NFL. Any time you do a team to team comparison there's going to be differences and similarities, can't really do a comparison on run option teams though because the Panther's are ran so differently compared to the other ones.

Just to let you know, I gave the perfect attack with the Nicks information I posted earlier. He only had 53 catches for like 770 yards this past season.

Oh I know you did but I went to Independence and won't say Lafell is better then Nicks even with the 23 targeting difference.

[Match.com]

Great write-up

[MadHatter]

A lot of scouts and teams have him rated higher then Warmack now, he effectively passed him with his workout's, combine and pro day.

Warmack is a mauler.

Cooper is much more athletic....can also play any of the three interior OL positions.

I definitely would not be surprised to see him go before Warmack.