Further evidence that WR trumps O-Line as a need (PFF edition).

[BigSyke]

Yeah you got to try out Patton man. But glad to see they are looking at all the wide-outs in this class.

[koolkatluke]

Looks like Carolina will be selecting a WR for sure in the first two rounds. I'd imagine it would be pretty unlikely for a team to use 7 of it's limited workouts on different WR's and not select at least one of them.

.

That maybe true but don't think it's instant upgrade or who ever we draft will beat out Lafell.

[carpanfan96]

60 more attempts is still a lopsided comparison no matter how you spin it. Then you have no equation to compare the addition of a running QB. When comparing NY offense to ours. Cam is such a major part to our running game that it's hard to compare to a QB who can't run.

Examples can you calculate how many TD opportunities were taken from the WR's when we ran the shotgun dive play with Cam?

Wow, other teams use RB's in those situations. So no it's doesn't matter if Cam does it or Stewart or Williams or Tolbert or whomever. Were talking about passing stats, Cam running vs a RB running are the same thing. They both take opps away and it frankly doesn't give an advantage either way. No 51 passing attempts (536 vs 485) isn't that big of a factor. It's 3 more pass attempts a game and a difference of 5 passing yards per game. It's the easily the best comparison.

Comparing the Panther's to Seattle (6 more pass attempts per game for Carolina) or to SF (Difference of between 9-14 pass attempts per game depending on which QB started for SF) or to Washington (Difference of 4 pass attempts per game) are all way more lopsided just based off of basic stats, add to that the fact that Seattle and Washington run a WCO and it makes the comparison silly.

The huge difference in pass attempts for SF and Carolina makes that comparison silly as well.

So no, my comparison makes more sense. I'm sorry, that's a fact based on stats, logic or what ever else you want to use.

[carpanfan96]

Nicks is a number 1 wr nobody is saying Lafell is.

OK, then Cruz smashes Lafell's Numbers. I was giving you the better comparison. lol

[DaCityKats]

Looks like Carolina will be selecting a WR for sure in the first two rounds. I'd imagine it would be pretty unlikely for a team to use 7 of it's limited workouts on different WR's and not select at least one of them.

True (2 chainz voice)

[koolkatluke]

OK, then Cruz smashes Lafell's Numbers. I was giving you the better comparison. lol

They have 2 WR who can be number 1's. But not every team builds their offences that way. Atl has 2 number 1's and no running game.

[carpanfan96]

They have 2 WR who can be number 1's. But not every team builds their offences that way. Atl has 2 number 1's and no running game.

NO, Atlanta, Jacksonville, NE, TB, Baltimore all had two WR's with high target and catch ratio's with Atlanta, NO, Jacksonville and NE all having TE with close to 100 targets as well. I think GB was among those teams as well, can't remember for sure or not though.

Plenty of teams build that way now.

[Ivan The Awesome]

Roto says we took Patton out today so add another WR to the interest list. That now makes 7 or 8 of the top WR prospects we have shown interest in.

Do you have a list of them? I'd like to see who they are.

[carpanfan96]

Tavon Austin, DeAndre Hopkins, Patton, Bailey and Allen that I know of off the top of my head

[koolkatluke]

Wow, other teams use RB's in those situations. So no it's doesn't matter if Cam does it or Stewart or Williams or Tolbert or whomever. Were talking about passing stats, Cam running vs a RB running are the same thing. They both take opps away and it frankly doesn't give an advantage either way. No 51 passing attempts (536 vs 485) isn't that big of a factor. It's 3 more pass attempts a game and a difference of 5 passing yards per game. It's the easily the best comparison.

Comparing the Panther's to Seattle (6 more pass attempts per game for Carolina) or to SF (Difference of between 9-14 pass attempts per game depending on which QB started for SF) or to Washington (Difference of 4 pass attempts per game) are all way more lopsided just based off of basic stats, add to that the fact that Seattle and Washington run a WCO and it makes the comparison silly.

The huge difference in pass attempts for SF and Carolina makes that comparison silly as well.

So no, my comparison makes more sense. I'm sorry, that's a fact based on stats, logic or what ever else you want to use.

It's not a big difference for you because it goes against your point. But 51 more attempts could bemore targets for Lafell and other WR.

It does matter because some of those runs from outside of the 5. Could be slant passes and some of those 3rd down runs could have and would have been passes if Manning was the QB.

Your comparison makes no sense at all because the bulk of our offense depends on the QB legs and the bulk of NY offense depends on Mannings arm.

[carpanfan96]

It's not a big difference for you because it goes against your point. But 51 more attempts could bemore targets for Lafell and other WR.

It does matter because some of those runs from outside of the 5. Could be slant passes and some of those 3rd down runs could have and would have been passes if Manning was the QB.

Your comparison makes no sense at all because the bulk of our offense depends on the QB legs and the bulk of NY offense depends on Mannings arm.

Like I said, QB running, RB running it or so forth doesn't matter. NY runs the ball last I checked, pretty comparable to Carolina's numbers. The fact that Cam Newton runs has no bearing on this discussion at all, it doesn't effect the stats in they way you say they are. Most teams run the ball inside the 10 yard line a couple of times. Doesn't matter if that's a QB, RB, FB or hell even a TE running the ball. Every team could run a slant or run a dive play...

that's 3 attempts and 5 yards per game, I broke the numbers down for you. Your comparison is still being based off of Newton's legs, that has no more impact on his WR's target numbers then a RB getting carries. Even if you include Newton's rushing yards in the equation, Seattle, SF and Washington still ran the ball way more then Carolina and passed way less.

The most comparable team attempts - completions - passing yards to offensive style is NY.

It's not that one thing goes against my point, if you would have read my full post you'd have seen that. I compared them because the stats and offensive system are more similar then to say Washington or Seattle.

Very simple here, those extra 51 pass attempts for Manning led to 80 more passing yards on the season. The difference of 51 plays over the course of a season's total of a 1000 plays and 80 yards is small. Huge difference of 150+ pass attempts on a season if talking about comparing Carolina and SF or a considerably smaller amount then the 70-80 pass attempts if comparing Carolina to Washington or Seattle.

So if my comparison makes no sense what so ever then your comparison is pure lunacy.

[koolkatluke]

Like I said, QB running, RB running it or so forth doesn't matter. NY runs the ball last I checked, pretty comparable to Carolina's numbers. The fact that Cam Newton runs has no bearing on this discussion at all, it doesn't effect the stats in they way you say they are. Most teams run the ball inside the 10 yard line a couple of times. Doesn't matter if that's a QB, RB, FB or hell even a TE running the ball. Every team could run a slant or run a dive play...

that's 3 attempts and 5 yards per game, I broke the numbers down for you. Your comparison is still being based off of Newton's legs, that has no more impact on his WR's target numbers then a RB getting carries. Even if you include Newton's rushing yards in the equation, Seattle, SF and Washington still ran the ball way more then Carolina and passed way less.

The most comparable team attempts - completions - passing yards to offensive style is NY.

It's not that one thing goes against my point, if you would have read my full post you'd have seen that. I compared them because the stats and offensive system are more similar then to say Washington or Seattle.

Very simple here, those extra 51 pass attempts for Manning led to 80 more passing yards on the season. The difference of 51 plays over the course of a season's total of a 1000 plays and 80 yards is small. Huge difference of 150+ pass attempts on a season if talking about comparing Carolina and SF or a considerably smaller amount then the 70-80 pass attempts if comparing Carolina to Washington or Seattle.

So if my comparison makes no sense what so ever then your comparison is pure lunacy.

1.It's a difference because the set of plays they would run on a 3rd and 5-6-7 is different then the plays we run. Our set of plays more resemble Seattle's, Wash and San fran's playbook more then NY. So adding in the QB running ability changes the playbook which changes the passing game.

2. While Cam can run for 1st downs when he's in trouble Manning will take more risk passing to player that aren't exactly open.

3. How about that Nicks (the #2 WR) had 100 targets compare to Lafell's 76.

[carpanfan96]

1.It's a difference because the set of plays they would run on a 3rd and 5-6-7 is different then the plays we run. Our set of plays more resemble Seattle's, Wash and San fran's playbook more then NY. So adding in the QB running ability changes the playbook which changes the passing game.

2. While Cam can run for 1st downs when he's in trouble Manning will take more risk passing to player that aren't exactly open.

3. How about that Nicks (the #2 WR) had 100 targets compare to Lafell's 76.

You obviously don't get it. Carolina runs a lot of the same WR patterns and plays as NY, that's why I used them. Similarities between Carolina and Wash, Seattle and San Fran start and end with the QB having a percentage of the run game. Carolina threw the ball Way more, tons more or however you want to say it compared to any of the three of them. It's just a stupid comparison, really it honestly is. Football wise it's a stupid comparison. They run completely different offenses and have completely different passing plays then Carolina does.

Which is what were talking about, Passing the ball. I'm comparing the offenses and NYG and Carolina's offense have more in common then Carolina and Seattle or Carolina and Washington or Carolina and SF.

The reason Nicks had more targets is his QB trust him more and he gets open more often. Watch the film, watch some games. Lafell struggles with getting open quite a bit.

You seem to be the only person blind to this fact, blind to the fact that Carolina doesn't run a WCO and beyond having mobile QB's the offenses your comparing have little to nothing in common.

Cam Scrambles with his eyes down field, meaning if someone can get open he's more likely to throw the football then say Michael Vick is. If no one is open, then he runs. His scrambling ability is actually helping Lafell out and your blind to that as well.

[koolkatluke]

You obviously don't get it. Carolina runs a lot of the same WR patterns and plays as NY, that's why I used them. Similarities between Carolina and Wash, Seattle and San Fran start and end with the QB having a percentage of the run game. Carolina threw the ball Way more, tons more or however you want to say it compared to any of the three of them. It's just a stupid comparison, really it honestly is. Football wise it's a stupid comparison. They run completely different offenses and have completely different passing plays then Carolina does.

Which is what were talking about, Passing the ball. I'm comparing the offenses and NYG and Carolina's offense have more in common then Carolina and Seattle or Carolina and Washington or Carolina and SF.

The reason Nicks had more targets is his QB trust him more and he gets open more often. Watch the film, watch some games. Lafell struggles with getting open quite a bit.

You seem to be the only person blind to this fact, blind to the fact that Carolina doesn't run a WCO and beyond having mobile QB's the offenses your comparing have little to nothing in common.

Cam Scrambles with his eyes down field, meaning if someone can get open he's more likely to throw the football then say Michael Vick is. If no one is open, then he runs. His scrambling ability is actually helping Lafell out and your blind to that as well.

1. There are 9 routes in the WR route tree everybody pretty much runs the same patters when talking about offenses.

2. Our play types may resemble a lot of offense SD and others. But our playcaller did more to resemble Washington, Seattle, and San Fran. There is no fuging way you can sit here and say the fact that Cam can run didn't effect the playcalling. That a lot of plays and down and distance situation that would be throwing plays for Manning were running plays for Cam. So taking away attempts for WR.

Seattle doesn't run a West Coast offense

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/12/27/3808788/an-old-favorite-returns-to-the-seahawks-offense

You might want to read this to it tells you how the West Coast and Coryell are closely related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

West Coast Offense: Air Coryell

Bernie Kosar used the term to describe the offense formalized by Sid Gillman with the AFL Chargers in the 1960s and later by Don Coryell's St. Louis Cardinals and Chargers in the 1970s and 1980s. Al Davis, an assistant under Gillman, also carried his version to the Oakland Raiders, where his successors John Rauch, John Madden, and Tom Flores continued to employ and expand upon its basic principles. This is the "West Coast Offense" as Kosar originally used the term. However, it is now commonly referred to as the "Air Coryell" timed system, and instead the term West Coast Offense is usually used to describe Bill Walsh's system.

The offense uses a specific naming system, with the routes for wide receivers and tight ends receiving three digit numbers, and routes for backs having unique names. For example, a pass play in 3 digit form might be "Split Right 787 check swing, check V". (see Offensive Nomenclature). This provides an efficient way to communicate many different plays with minimal memorization. Conversely, the West Coast Offense could in theory have more freedom, since route combinations are not limited by 0-9 digits, but at the price of much more memorization required by the players.