First Draft Podcast-Kiper/McShay Discuss picks 11-15

[Growl]

I don't think Gettleman has the power to make Rivera lose football games by having some outdated run offense.

[koolkatluke]

I don't think Gettleman has the power to make Rivera lose football games by having some outdated run offense.

Downhill running isn't out dated. The Ravens had a pretty good traditional running attack.

[Frizzy350]

SF - Justin Smith really?? You don't think he's good?

GB- BJ Raji

Pitt- Hampton has been great for years.

Houston- Watts plays all the DLine position and he is great.

SD - When SD was good on defense they had AG up front. When he is hurt not as good.

NYJ - Pohua is a beast and when they were really good Jenkins was in the middle.

You are also picking a lot of 3-4 teams. Look at the the really good 4-3 defenses.

We finished 14 because our offense started scoring more points making teams pass more. But we got gashed by PHilly and a undrafted RB KC and Tampa going down the stretch. Giving up 4.2 a carry isn't good.

-Smith plays end.

-Hampton was VERY good for a long time but he isn't nearly the same player he used to be. Pitt has a well rounded front 3.

-Raji is very good, forgot about him.

-Watt is great, but once again Houston isn't known for DT play in particular.

-Garay is in the same boat as Hampton.

-Pouha is pretty good, but isn't doing as much for them as Jenkins did.

I picked a lot of 3-4 teams because I picked the high ranking defenses... the only ones that aren't 3-4 were Cinci, Chi, GB and Seattle.

4.2 yards a carry is average (at least last year). You can look it up.

-Our offense crushed Philly, and we forced two fumbles off that undrafted rookie.

-If you watched the KC game you wouldn't be quoting it. KC was given a sympathy game by the NFL where no holding calls were made and that trash Oline sure abused it.

-Doug Martin is a really good back and coach Schiano has made him a focal part of their offense.

We aren't great at stopping the run, and yes in a few games we got beat up by opposing running backs but we aren't horrible at stopping the run.

I'd rather have an elite pass rush with average run stopping capabilities than vice versa in today's NFL.

[BigSyke]

1st Sheldon Richardson

2nd Da'Rick Ridgers

4th Shamarko Thomas

5th Best OL available

6th BPA

7th BPA

Lock it up. Championship.

Decent, even though I'm not crazy about Sheldon. You don't think Newton needs better a o-line? Unless you think you will find a sure fire starter in the 5th. When I did my mock with Brennan Williams in the 5th, I was hoping he would be there, not expecting.Also, Rogers reminds me of Boldin a bit, so I would be fine with him. Thomas has Bob Sanders potential, but he over pursues a bit and ends up whiffing tackles. But most times he is a sure tackler and a hard hitter.

[Frizzy350]

We all know that from the comments of the HC the GM and Shula's history we are going to move to a traditional offense. Meaning we will still run the ball a good % out of traditional running sets. How is Austin as a blocker in you opinion because we will be running the ball at least 50% to 45% of the time.

All I'm saying it's not a great scheme fit for Austin with the direction this team is going on offense. If we were running a Patriot type offense or a West coast type offense I would be all for Auatin . If we were going to pass the Ball 70% to 75% of the time I would be all for Austin. But with the comments from the FO and the money in the backfield I don't see that.

From the comments of the HC, GM and Shula's history (which was a DECADE ago) we know we going to a MORE traditional offense. See thats the key word, MORE. That means we aren't going to use the read-option as our base running formation. It means we aren't going to be in a shotgun formation 80% of the time. It means we are going to be somewhat more traditional than Chud.

I'm not sure what makes you think we are going to pull a complete 180 and start running a Fox/Henning offense. We still have a great dual threat qb and 2 very good targets for him. Just because we incorporate some level of power running football that suits our backs doesn't mean we are suddenly going to be hardly passing the ball or completely gutting Cam's designed runs.

Who says Austin has to block? You can line him up wide and just have him gun down the field. The defense still has to account for him with his speed or risk giving up a TD if its a play action pass.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

I really like Austin's game tape, he is a human highlight reel but I just don't like the fact that his stock jumped SO much from a good combine.

The combine simply confirms his college production. He was a top 3 WR before that its just he has the elite mearsurables to justify a top 20 pick on him.

Just like in the case for Dewayne Jarrett..dominated in college hut his measurables told a story that he might struggle to get seperation in the NFL so he dropped...and we made the NFL pay..wait no we didnt..he could not get seperation.

[Frizzy350]

The combine simply confirms his college production. He was a top 3 WR before that its just he has the elite mearsurables to justify a top 20 pick on him.

Just like in the case for Dewayne Jarrett..dominated in college hut his measurables told a story that he might struggle to get seperation in the NFL so he dropped...and we made the NFL pay..wait no we didnt..he could not get seperation.

Doesnt surprise me. I just didnt remember hearing about him with all the rumblings about Allen, Patterson and Hunter.

[koolkatluke]

-Smith plays end.

-Hampton was VERY good for a long time but he isn't nearly the same player he used to be. Pitt has a well rounded front 3.

-Raji is very good, forgot about him.

-Watt is great, but once again Houston isn't known for DT play in particular.

-Garay is in the same boat as Hampton.

-Pouha is pretty good, but isn't doing as much for them as Jenkins did.

I picked a lot of 3-4 teams because I picked the high ranking defenses... the only ones that aren't 3-4 were Cinci, Chi, GB and Seattle.

4.2 yards a carry is average (at least last year). You can look it up.

-Our offense crushed Philly, and we forced two fumbles off that undrafted rookie.

-If you watched the KC game you wouldn't be quoting it. KC was given a sympathy game by the NFL where no holding calls were made and that trash Oline sure abused it.

-Doug Martin is a really good back and coach Schiano has made him a focal part of their offense.

We aren't great at stopping the run, and yes in a few games we got beat up by opposing running backs but we aren't horrible at stopping the run.

I'd rather have an elite pass rush with average run stopping capabilities than vice versa in today's NFL.

Smith lines up all over the line and SF has a really good NT in Sopauga and RGF.

GB is a 3-4 team

And the rest of the good 4-3 defenses have great DT play.

4.2 yards a run play is almost giving up a 1st down in 2 plays. Not good.

Even if you fall under this "we gave KC the game" theory. It doesn't change that we got gashed by them Philly and many other teams this year. And that's with The Edwards boys (who we don't have right now).

I totally disagree that we had a avg. run defense. I think people are letting the late season surge a improve offense causing people to pass a lot more and a few lucky TO hide the fact we were getting the ball stuff down our throat. We also weren't facing many good teams down the stretch.

Example Ryan got hurt in the SD game and we knocked the QB out of the Raiders game. Making both teams 1 dimensional.

I like a elite pass rush to. But we were not a avg. Run defense and definitely not one without the Edwards boys.

[Frizzy350]

Smith lines up all over the line and SF has a really good NT in Sopauga and RGF.

GB is a 3-4 team

And the rest of the good 4-3 defenses have great DT play.

4.2 yards a run play is almost giving up a 1st down in 2 plays. Not good.

Even if you fall under this "we gave KC the game" theory. It doesn't change that we got gashed by them Philly and many other teams this year. And that's with The Edwards boys (who we don't have right now).

I totally disagree that we had a avg. run defense. I think people are letting the late season surge a improve offense causing people to pass a lot more and a few lucky TO hide the fact we were getting the ball stuff down our throat. We also weren't facing many good teams down the stretch.

Example Ryan got hurt in the SD game and we knocked the QB out of the Raiders game. Making both teams 1 dimensional.

I like a elite pass rush to. But we were not a avg. Run defense and definitely not one without the Edwards boys.

The edwards are replaceable. Go look up the numbers. What we let up per game and per carry are average. Yards per carry are higher across the board due to the effectiveness of the passing game and defenses putting so much speed on the field to counter the passing game.

Even if we got gashed by the run a few games out of the season, its not a big deal. Drew Brees had a 5 pick game and you don't see Saints fans clamoring for their passing game to be improved. Football is a volatile sport, theres many moving pieces and sometimes everything goes to poo. You can't let 1-2 games in a season dictate your needs.

You think of the majority of our losses, and most weren't caused by our inability to stop the run. Special Teams, our Oline and our secondary are by far our biggest concerns.

[rayzor]

Trends and comments from the team this offseason most certainly dictate that we're looking to take a WR high.

Honestly I think Gettleman's ideal scenario is to move down roughly 7 or 8 spots, garner a 3rd, and take a WR with the first pick, but putting that into play will be tricky.

Either way, that certainly appears to be where our interest lies.

agreed.

WR no later than the 2nd round.

i think interior DL and OL are easy enough fixes in FA with a good eye and just a little cap space. i think rivera and gettleman together can fill those holes without much problem and we don't have to wait a couple years to see positive results like if we drafted one of those spots.

OT is good enough to get by and i think that even bell should be easy to upgrade if needed and it wouldn't be too expensive, either.

i think the big thing they are wanting are playmakers....esp. on offense. touchdown scorers.

[rayzor]

Well if we can pick up a 3rd, 4th id be thrilled..but who is moving up? SF?

49ers are the most likely partners, but only because they've got a million picks and got so close to getting a ring last year. i see them as trying to do what they can, using every available resource, to get back there soon and win it. they aren't in just 'win now' mode. they are in 'win a lombardi now' mode.

[koolkatluke]

From the comments of the HC, GM and Shula's history (which was a DECADE ago) we know we going to a MORE traditional offense. See thats the key word, MORE. That means we aren't going to use the read-option as our base running formation. It means we aren't going to be in a shotgun formation 80% of the time. It means we are going to be somewhat more traditional than Chud.

I'm not sure what makes you think we are going to pull a complete 180 and start running a Fox/Henning offense. We still have a great dual threat qb and 2 very good targets for him. Just because we incorporate some level of power running football that suits our backs doesn't mean we are suddenly going to be hardly passing the ball or completely gutting Cam's designed runs.

Who says Austin has to block? You can line him up wide and just have him gun down the field. The defense still has to account for him with his speed or risk giving up a TD if its a play action pass.

We probably won't go the John Fox way of 3 yards and a cloud of dust. But we are also not going the Patriot/west coast/ passing the ball 65% to 70% to 75% times a game either. We have to much money in our backfield (even if we let a rb go) to do that.

89 lines up on the outside and runs deep he is the decoy WR and he still has to block. Lafell will be on the field for his blocking then Olson and 2 Backs. Where does that leave Austin. Plus he will have to block to be more then just a slot Wr. Question is are you willing to draft a player in the top 15 to run a couple plays for here and there?

[koolkatluke]

The edwards are replaceable. Go look up the numbers. What we let up per game and per carry are average. Yards per carry are higher across the board due to the effectiveness of the passing game and defenses putting so much speed on the field to counter the passing game.

Even if we got gashed by the run a few games out of the season, its not a big deal. Drew Brees had a 5 pick game and you don't see Saints fans clamoring for their passing game to be improved. Football is a volatile sport, theres many moving pieces and sometimes everything goes to poo. You can't let 1-2 games in a season dictate your needs.

You think of the majority of our losses, and most weren't caused by our inability to stop the run. Special Teams, our Oline and our secondary are by far our biggest concerns.

If they are so easy to replace them why haven't we done it yet? You're not crazy enough to believe we have their replacements on the roster now do you?

And the fact you think it was 1 or 2 games makes me think you didn't watch this team all year.

We got killed in the Philly, KC, Giants, Atl, Denver, and both Tampa games by the run. We forced other teams to pass by building leads in the Seattle, Chicago, Redskins and both NO games. That doesn't mean we were playing the run well.

But I love how you're trying to sit here and devalue the DT position when 5 or 6 might go in the 1st round.

[koolkatluke]

agreed.

WR no later than the 2nd round.

i think interior DL and OL are easy enough fixes in FA with a good eye and just a little cap space. i think rivera and gettleman together can fill those holes without much problem and we don't have to wait a couple years to see positive results like if we drafted one of those spots.

OT is good enough to get by and i think that even bell should be easy to upgrade if needed and it wouldn't be too expensive, either.

i think the big thing they are wanting are playmakers....esp. on offense. touchdown scorers.

If Ol and DT are such easy fixes. Then why haven't they been fixed for so long now? And why is the DT position so coveted by teams?