Ron Rivera reportedly says the Panthers are "open to trading D. Will"

[CRA]

Well yea if you expect him to rush for more than 600 yards... and his salary increases like 1 mill. not that huge.

he is already too expensive....and gets more expensive.

I expect him to rush for 400-800 yards this year if on the team. We would then be trying to trade a 31 yr old back, who hasn't done anything on the field in 4 years to justify a team sniffing on such a thing.

[Floppin]

Guys, it's nearly impossible to trade DWill.

We overpaid, and most GM's are not as stupid as Hurney was.

Not true. Yes WE overpaid, but only because of a large signing bonus and lots of guaranteed money. If he was traded, his salary and cap hit would be well within reason. The trading partner doesn't take over what our cap hit would be, only his base salary.

[CRA]

Not true. Yes WE overpaid, but only because of a large signing bonus and lots of guaranteed money. If he was traded, his salary and cap hit would be well within reason. The trading partner doesn't take over what our cap hit would be, only his base salary.

30 yr old RB - 4.7m

31 yr old RB - 5.7m

32 yr old RB - 6.7m

That is base salary left on his deal..that isn't reasonable. He hasn't rushed for 900 yards or 8 TDs in a seaon the last 3 years.

[Floppin]

30 yr old RB - 4.7m

31 yr old RB - 5.7m

32 yr old RB - 6.7m

That is base salary left on his deal..that isn't reasonable. He hasn't rushed for 900 yards or 8 TDs in a seaon the last 3 years.

There's reasons for those totals, don't be obtuse. Hell you argue the reasons ad nauseum on these very forums, as a featured back you know his numbers would increase. Paying 4.7million for a talented featured back is well within reason, and any team willing would only be on the hook for the salary for as long as they wanted to keep him. They could cut him at any point without any cap implications.

[CRA]

There's reasons for those totals, don't be obtuse. Hell you argue the reasons ad nauseum on these very forums, as a featured back you know his numbers would increase. Paying 4.7million for a talented featured back is well within reason, and any team willing would only be on the hook for the salary for as long as they wanted to keep him. They could cut him at any point without any cap implications.

4.7 or 5.7 is still a large cap hit....for a 30 or 31 yr old RB that hasn't produced much over the last 3 years.

You really think it is fair to call a 30 yr old RB who last ran for a 1000 yards 4 years ago......NOW a featured RB? I don't.

There are cheaper options if you need a roleplayer....and that could be more of a long term fix

[Floppin]

4.7 or 5.7 is still a large cap hit....for a 30 or 31 yr old RB that hasn't produced much over the last 3 years.

You really think it is fair to call a 30 yr old RB who last ran for a 1000 yards 4 years ago......NOW a featured RB? I don't.

There are cheaper options if you need a roleplayer....and that could be more of a long term fix

He's never been a featured back. None of our RB's since Stephen fuging Davis have been a featured back. That's my point. If someone wants to use him as a primary use back, with his skill set and ability, he has all the potential in the world to be worth that money.

[ThunderKatt]

It's not D-Will's fault the coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing. After Stew went down D-Will came back in and Rivera noticed the uptick and every since he has acted like he knew D could do it and now is on the bandwagon. RR blows with the wind. I hate his decision making, he has been crappy in the past and hopefully this year he will redeem himself. That's not an idea that I am happy about.

:thumbsd:

4.7 or 5.7 is still a large cap hit....for a 30 or 31 yr old RB that hasn't produced much over the last 3 years.

You really think it is fair to call a 30 yr old RB who last ran for a 1000 yards 4 years ago......NOW a featured RB? I don't.

There are cheaper options if you need a roleplayer....and that could be more of a long term fix

[CRA]

He's never been a featured back. None of our RB's since Stephen fuging Davis have been a featured back. That's my point. If someone wants to use him as a primary use back, with his skill set and ability, he has all the potential in the world to be worth that money.

Not at 30....to big of gamble to up his workload to be a real featured RB at this stage.

He is a roleplayer. That is everyone's problem.

[CRA]

It's not D-Will's fault the coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing. After Stew went down D-Will came back in and Rivera noticed the uptick and every since he has acted like he knew D could do it and now is on the bandwagon. RR blows with the wind. I hate his decision making, he has been crappy in the past and hopefully this year he will redeem himself. That's not an idea that I am happy about.

:thumbsd:

Not blaming Williams. Hurney.

Saints game still clouds judgement....15 games into the season he average a measly 3.3 yards per carry.

Rivera knows Williams is a roleplayer in his offense....which is why Stewart is the preferred RB and Tolbert brought in

[panthers55]

Why are we talking about what Chud did with DWill or Stewart? He is gone. Shula says he is going to run more in a power running formula similar to what we did when Williams and Stewart got more carries. Does that mean we can't do without Williams?? Not all all. But to assume that we are going to run Cam as much as we did the last 2 years when Gettleman said specifically we won't or to assume we aren't going to increase the workload of the backs is ridiculous. it smacks more of what posters want to see not what we will actually do.

[CRA]

Why are we talking about what Chud did with DWill or Stewart? He is gone. Shula says he is going to run more in a power running formula similar to what we did when Williams and Stewart got more carries. Does that mean we can't do without Williams?? Not all all. But to assume that we are going to run Cam as much as we did the last 2 years when Gettleman said specifically we won't or to assume we aren't going to increase the workload of the backs is ridiculous. it smacks more of what posters want to see not what we will actually do.

Really? B/c Rivera claims Shula is pretty much going to run what we had been running....which was one of the main reasons they could defend the hire.

Rivera wanted the power run last season....and per Rivera that means more Stewart (not Williams).

and for the last time, Gettlemen is NOT an OC. Cam will continue to run like he always has....had this debate last offseason. Gettlemen is nothing more than an old dinosaur who talked about what he had always believed. Read option is staying, Cam freestyle running is staying...

Cam isn't the passer yet to take his legs out....Chud said that was a 7-8 yr goal. Chud also said post Carolina....Cam gets hurt passing, not running.

Cam is running in 2013. Nothing supports him not....only if you want to put all your faith in an old GM talking about what he believed in. Too bad he stepped into a team w/ a coach/QB already in place we are going to do what is best for Cam and the O.

Just like last offseason, you are suggesting an offense more geared to the Fox (pre Cam) era......nothing supports such.

[panthers55]

Really? B/c Rivera claims Shula is pretty much going to run what we had been running....which was one of the main reasons they could defend the hire.

Rivera wanted the power run last season....and per Rivera that means more Stewart (not Williams).

and for the last time, Gettlemen is NOT an OC. Cam will continue to run like he always has....had this debate last offseason. Gettlemen is nothing more than an old dinosaur who talked about what he had always believed. Read option is staying, Cam freestyle running is staying...

Cam isn't the passer yet to take his legs out....Chud said that was a 7-8 yr goal. Chud also said post Carolina....Cam gets hurt passing, not running.

Cam is running in 2013. Nothing supports him not....only if you want to put all your faith in an old GM talking about what he believed in. Too bad he stepped into a team w/ a coach/QB already in place we are going to do what is best for Cam and the O.

Just like last offseason, you are suggesting an offense more geared to the Fox (pre Cam) era......nothing supports such.

Seriously if you say it over and over, it doesn't make it true. Everyone knows you don't like Williams and want him gone. You may get your way finally. At least we won't have to listen to the constant whining for hundred of posts in thread after thread about Williams.

But as to your post. Gettleman has said over and over that Cam is going to be a pocket passer. He is not going to run that much except on busted plays. We are not going to use the read option very much at all. I know that you will just argue that we will over and over but here are some links that say you are wrong like usual.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/panthers/2013/02/21/carolina-panthers-cam-newton-pocket-passer-dave-gettleman-new-york-giants/1936543/

How many times did Manning run in New York?? 20 times for 35 yards last year. Lets assume Newton runs 3 times as much. That is 60 times in 16 games which doesn't make him part of the running game.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/03/19/3925943/panthers-cam-newton-will-eventually.html

Here is an article by Chud where he talks about the fact that even if he had stayed as coordinator he planned to wean Cam from a running quarterback to a passing quarterback. What you fall to realize it appears is that we ran Newton as much as we did more because that was Newton's abilty level coming in to the league and what he could do right away not what we want him to evolve into doing. Going forward there is a clear mandate to not use the read option as a staple of the offense. Are they going to say we won't use it?? Of course not, you never tell teams what you are going to do, you make them practice all of it and prepare for all contingencies. But reading the article you can notice that they are also looking at how many times that the quarterback is carrying the ball versus the running back. In other words we may use the read option but we will largely use the dive back or the back going wide to run the ball not the quarterback. So while we keep the read option in, the quarterback won't be getting the ball most of the time. Sometimes perhaps but not 1/2 of the time.

And no I am not looking at a Fox offense which is really a Davidson offense which used the Erhardt-Perkins system versus the Coryell vertical offense we currently use. But Shula will use more power running formation and a lot more play action passing rather than the primary read option. There was a clear reason we got rid of our old running back coach and brought in Jim Skipper who was our running back coach during the Fox years. That was because our running game is going to look a lot more like our power running game of the past.

Again no one is saying we won't use the read option at all, or that newton won't do a few quarterback sneaks or other designed plays but when we run the read option he won't be the primary option and he is going to be a primary pocket passer. That means he won't be a large part of our running game. With an increased emphasis on the run game we will either give a lot carries to Tolbert and Stewart or we will have to find another option.

I know you will keep arguing for the next 6 months about what we will do only to find out I was right because I read what they say, not what I want to have happen. But I am not going to go back and forth over 300 posts because it expends a ton of my energy and when you are wrong you will make one post acknowledging your mistake which is hardly equal to all the hundreds of posts you made challenging everyone along the way. I will simply say what I believe to be the case, you will argue and I will let it go. I doubt I will even bring it up when they do as I suggest they will because by that time it won't really matter and I am not one to hold grudges.

We will see what happens but unless you have a pipeline to Rivera and Shula, we have to rely on what everyone is saying and that is what I am posting above. Interpret it how you choose.

[ThunderKatt]

What about the games that lead up to the Saints game? D-Will looked better than ever catching the ball out of the back field and running the ball as well. If you know anything about Panthers football, you know that the offensive line takes weeks to gel and to get things going. That's been the way it has worked since 2007 and if you expect something different with most of the same cog players then you can but for me I know better than that. That is the reason why Wheels looked better towards the end and was able to show off his feet.

Not blaming Williams. Hurney.

Saints game still clouds judgement....15 games into the season he average a measly 3.3 yards per carry.

Rivera knows Williams is a roleplayer in his offense....which is why Stewart is the preferred RB and Tolbert brought in

[rodeo]

What about the games that lead up to the Saints game?

CRA said "It's just one game!" about 5 or 6 times in a row to end the season.