Panthers want Gross to take a pay cut

[Thorrez]

Gross is making something like $11.7 million this season. $6.7 is unguaranteed. $5 million is "dead", and I am not sure what that means in this situaion-but since the signing bonus is part of it, i assume it refers to the cap--regardless of whether we cut him or not.

Next year, the final year of Gross' contract, his cap figure is $9.7 million, $3 million more than his unguaranteed salary. Since he will get no signing bonus allotment in 2014, I have no idea what the $3 million is for.

Unless someone can correct me with an explanation, I figure that Gross would get from $5 million to $8 million if we cut him. So, if he signs somewhere else (2 year deal, $12 million is reasonable), he would still earn between $17 and $20 million. He would make about $21 million here.

I do not think Gettlemen increases Gross' contract, but I think he could guarantee him about $12 million over 2 seasons (signing bonus), and give him a $2 million per salary. That is about $16 million for 2 seasons, close to what he would make in Free agency. That would reduce the cap hit from $11.7 in 2013 to $8 million in 2013, doubling the amount they are under right now. For 2014, the cap hit was slated to be $9.7, so we would be 1.7 under that figure next year, with the option of cutting Gross to save another $2 million.

The Panthers do not have as much leverege as one might think, based on the guaranteed money Gross gets when he is cut.

That $3M is one million from the original signing bonus and a two million roster bonus.

The way I read rotoworld, we only have 2M in dead cap hit if we cut him. And he is getting nothing. That money is already payed.

Contract only: Panther leverage

Inportace (read: he is protecting cam): Gross leverage

[CRA]

Inportace (read: he is protecting cam): Gross leverage

Also green young LG also on learning on blindside = Gross leverage.

Gross seems more like a restructure than a real paycut. Hard to get him to legitimately take less IMO.

[carolina-chuck]

The difference is those teams groomed someone to replace all of those guys. We haven't drafted anyone, nor groomed anyone to replace Gross. Now we're stuck with a 33 year old overpaid LT who's athleticism is beginning to leave him, and making him a question mark as a pass blocker. What's worse, is we're not in the position to draft his replacement at this time....

Yea very true. But you also have to consider how a very young offense like Miami with a 2nd yr QB can let their LT Jake Long test free agency and really showing no sign of wanting to bring him back.

I have been preaching about wanting to keep Gross but if he show no desire to help this team out in restructuring his contract, I'd gladly cut him.

I don't want to be in a position where we have to keep an overpaid player just bc by cutting him leaves us a big hole at a certain position. Our hands are pretty much tied up if we go in that direction. Cut the guy, and use that money elsewhere. This is an off season filled with OTs in both FA and the Draft. Good teams can live with cutting a good player.

[C47]

Yea very true. But you also have to consider how a very young offense like Miami with a 2nd yr QB can let their LT Jake Long test free agency and really showing no sign of wanting to bring him back.

I have been preaching about wanting to keep Gross but if he show no desire to help this team out in restructuring his contract, I'd gladly cut him.

I don't want to be in a position where we have to keep an overpaid player just bc by cutting him leaves us a big hole at a certain position. Our hands are pretty much tied up if we go in that direction. Cut the guy, and use that money elsewhere. This is an off season filled with OTs in both FA and the Draft. Good teams can live with cutting a good player.

If we were drafting in the top five I could just about guarantee the Gross wouldn't be here at the start of Free Agency. That's the way it works though. Even with cutting Gross we wouldn't have enough money for an impact FA Tackle, and there will not be one available at 14. Just the way the ball bounced this year....

[carolina-chuck]

If we were drafting in the top five I could just about guarantee the Gross wouldn't be here at the start of Free Agency. That's the way it works though. Even with cutting Gross we wouldn't have enough money for an impact FA Tackle, and there will not be one available at 14. Just the way the ball bounced this year....

Like I said above, there are some good options in FA. If we do somehow cut Gross, cant rule out that we cant go after one of the better OTs in FA. I dont see anyone of them making a lot more than what Gross is already making right now. The Draft is pretty much packed with some very good talents. A guy like Johnson could fall, if not guys like Fluker (possibly RT), Long, Thomas, Armstead could be great value in the 2nd. Only fault is the learning curve and transition of a rookie OT from college to pro.

[C47]

Like I said above, there are some good options in FA. If we do somehow cut Gross, cant rule out that we cant go after one of the better OTs in FA. I dont see anyone of them making a lot more than what Gross is already making right now. The Draft is pretty much packed with some very good talents. A guy like Johnson could fall, if not guys like Fluker (possibly RT), Long, Thomas, Armstead could be great value in the 2nd. Only fault is the learning curve and transition of a rookie OT from college to pro.

You don't cut a guy and replace him in FA unless the replacement is an upgrade. Any FA upgrade over Gross in FA is going to be out of our price range. Johnson will not make it past SD, at this point I doubt he makes it past the top seven picks, and putting a project LT like Long or Armstead out on the blindside from day one is just asking to get Cam killed....

[panthers55]

Gross knows he is not going to get more money elsewhere than he does from us. If we restructure like we did with him last year he gets more upfront money and he will be here. I don't see us keeping him if he doesn't restructure. There are other options and even with a Jake Long we won't be absorbing a huge cap right away. With a signing bonus up front the first year is not that much. Plus there are going to be a lot of guys who will want a 1 or 2 year contract to bridge things until 2015 when the TV money will finally hit. Yes I would like Gross to stay and I think he will restructure but honestly we can find good guys to replace him without putting all our eggs into the draft. Next year will get even easier to do that.

[panthers55]

You don't cut a guy and replace him in FA unless the replacement is an upgrade. Any FA upgrade over Gross in FA is going to be out of our price range. Johnson will not make it past SD, at this point I doubt he makes it past the top seven picks, and putting a project LT like Long or Armstead out on the blindside from day one is just asking to get Cam killed....

Sure you do. Anyone think we are going to get a better player than Gamble at corner this year? You cut guys to get under the cap and do the best you can to replace them in free agency or the draft. You can't keep all your players as salaries increase across the board when the cap remains the same. So you pick where you can save the most and hopefully have areas where you can back fill or try and find similar guys without much drop off. But to assume you can always upgrade anytime you cut someone is naive in the current marketplace.

[Argus Plexus]

CJ earned his pay. Gross did too mostly, but he does get beat a lot more than he used to. These new kids at DE are ridiculously fast. He should take at least a few million off his figure, 11 million dollars is a lot of money but 8 million is a lot too. If Beason's contract were reworked like TD's was, it might save some money there too. D Will still has it but the amount of work he is asked to do doesn't warrant what he will be making so he should take a little paycut too if you ask me. Cut that Garry Williams kid too, he was unimpressive and would save a few bucks too if he was cut.

At some point CJ is going to have to come down on his cap figure a bit just because it's so astronomical, but this isn't the year to do that. He earned his keep last season and will probably do the same this season.

[MHS831]

Football already has enough math in it. They are trying to run me off.

Thanks for the explanations on the dead money.

Technically, unless Gross goes James Harrision on us, we should clear $4 million or so--without extending the length of the contract--I did not get the Jake Delhomme comment, but this is confusing to me.

I still do not see how we are going to do much more without cutting DW on June 1 to pay the picks. We will see

[SmashNDash]

I think Gross will do what's best for the team. This will put us in the region of 8-9 million under, which means we could add a decent DT/Corner, I'd be happy.

[C47]

Sure you do. Anyone think we are going to get a better player than Gamble at corner this year? You cut guys to get under the cap and do the best you can to replace them in free agency or the draft. You can't keep all your players as salaries increase across the board when the cap remains the same. So you pick where you can save the most and hopefully have areas where you can back fill or try and find similar guys without much drop off. But to assume you can always upgrade anytime you cut someone is naive in the current marketplace.

I don't see us replacing Gamble via FA, and there's a big difference in CB and LT. My point was you don't cut your franchise quarterbacks blindside protector unless you have an upgrade that is obtainable.

[panthers55]

I don't see us replacing Gamble via FA, and there's a big difference in CB and LT. My point was you don't cut your franchise quarterbacks blindside protector unless you have an upgrade that is obtainable.

That isn't true either. You cut who you have to and you pick up who you can to mitigate the damage from cutting one of your vets. The reality is that Gross has one or two years left anyway and it is hard to find someone who is an upgrade ready to take over unless you get lucky in the draft or is already on the team due to costs. So you do the best you can and find players where you can. Gross is good but not great or an all-pro anymore. We can find an equal for much less than 11 million and will. If Gross doesn't restructure he will be gone- wait and see.

[panthers55]

Football already has enough math in it. They are trying to run me off.

Thanks for the explanations on the dead money.

Technically, unless Gross goes James Harrision on us, we should clear $4 million or so--without extending the length of the contract--I did not get the Jake Delhomme comment, but this is confusing to me.

I still do not see how we are going to do much more without cutting DW on June 1 to pay the picks. We will see

Restructuring Gross and Beason easily gets us to 10 million without doing anything with WIlliams. I suspect he will be here for this year and released next year if Stewart has a better year than last year. Hard to dump Williams when Stewart is coming off surgery and a down year. There are no guarantees he will be 100%.