NBA 2013 Free Agents:: Big Men Edition

[koolkatluke]

I would probably give Mullens a max deal as well.

NO Just kidding or anything like that after you typed this stupid poo.

But even if you did it to act like Mullens and Hickson are in the same category of player.

That's even stupider then saying I would give Mullens a Max contract.

Mullens couldn't lick Hickson Jock strap.

[GamecockSmitty4]

Hickson is not worth a max deal. Neither is Pek or Jefferson. Handing out max deals to players of their caliber is exactly what gets you stuck on the treadmill.

Hickson is a nice rotation player but nothing more. On a great team, he is either coming off the bench or is the 4th or 5th scoring option. Bringing him here and forcing him to be a 1st or 2nd option is not going to help anybody.

[thatlookseasy]

Haha JJ Hickson. Max players arent given away in trades while still on their rookie contract. If he coudnt cut it on the Cavs with all their dominant post players, I dont think he is a 20-10 player.

Also, being a 20-10 player shouldnt make you a max player necessarily, look at David Lee. If I had to guess, I would say Hickson gets around $8-9 mil per season this summer

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

Hickson would be a great addition to the Bobcats. No not a max contract but the Bobcats will have to offer up an inflated contract to attract guys here.

Of the guys I think he is the best option and playing the 4 he would be an 18-10 guy here with efficient shooting..not the Mullins offensive explosion of 30% shooting from the outside.

I think they have to pass on the the Utah gs this season..just bc there is cap room Id like to time it for a no question Max guy if possible..just like with everthing this franchise the timeing of cap room with free agency is poor.

[GamecockSmitty4]

With the new CBA, cap space is much more valuable. You don't have to use it to sign FAs. We could take on bad contracts for other assets (young players or draft picks).

[koolkatluke]

Haha JJ Hickson. Max players arent given away in trades while still on their rookie contract. If he coudnt cut it on the Cavs with all their dominant post players, I dont think he is a 20-10 player.

Also, being a 20-10 player shouldnt make you a max player necessarily, look at David Lee. If I had to guess, I would say Hickson gets around $8-9 mil per season this summer

When has a 20-10 guy not been a Max player? Again we are talking about a 24 year old that instantly upgrades this team in the post. I'm sorry to inform you we will have to overpay for somebody because how bad we are. That is the only way we will get proven talent to come here.

[thatlookseasy]

When has a 20-10 guy not been a Max player? Again we are talking about a 24 year old that instantly upgrades this team in the post. I'm sorry to inform you we will have to overpay for somebody because how bad we are. That is the only way we will get proven talent to come here.

Really, your attention span is so short you couldnt finish reading that sentence?

David Lee is the answer to your question. He is also better than JJ Hickson (JJ Hickson is also nowhere near a 20 ppg type player, but thats a different discussion). He is also does not deserve to be a max player because his defense is also garbage.

I have no problem overpaying a free agent to come here. I do have a problem giving JJ Hickson a max contract, mainly because you are bidding against yourself if you pay him that kind of money. He is a decent NBA big man who should land a nice contract and starting spot this summer, but he wont get close to the max. I would be shocked if he gets more than Mcgee did last year

[ZB1224]

NO Just kidding or anything like that after you typed this stupid poo.

But even if you did it to act like Mullens and Hickson are in the same category of player.

That's even stupider then saying I would give Mullens a Max contract.

Mullens couldn't lick Hickson Jock strap.

I've said in multiple threads that Mullens is one of the worst bigs in the NBA.. YUP IM SERIOUS ABOUT GIVING HIM A MAX!!!!! lol (sarcasm since you have a REALLY tough time grasping it)

Anyways, as everyone else is saying -- Hickson is NOT a max contract player. He is a nice rotational big on a very good team or a starter on a fringe playoff team. He just isn't worth that type of money and I legitimately think that you might be the only person in the world that thinks that. I haven't really looked at some of the better analysts predictions of where free agents will wind up, but I can pretty much guarantee you that no one thinks that Hickson will get close to a max contract. If you feel that we will have to overpay him to acquire his talents, well, that's another story. We very well may have to overpay him, but overpaying him would be offering something like 4/40, because most of his offers will be in the 3/24 or 4/30 range in my opinion. Teams are becoming more savvy these days in advanced metrics and JJ Hickson's advanced metrics aren't very good... really his defense is just AWFUL at either the 4 or the 5... I'm talking Mullens bad.

[koolkatluke]

Really, your attention span is so short you couldnt finish reading that sentence?

David Lee is the answer to your question. He is also better than JJ Hickson (JJ Hickson is also nowhere near a 20 ppg type player, but thats a different discussion). He is also does not deserve to be a max player because his defense is also garbage.

I have no problem overpaying a free agent to come here. I do have a problem giving JJ Hickson a max contract, mainly because you are bidding against yourself if you pay him that kind of money. He is a decent NBA big man who should land a nice contract and starting spot this summer, but he wont get close to the max. I would be shocked if he gets more than Mcgee did last year

Please show me stats why his defense is so bad because every thing I've read says.

1. He's playing out of position at the 5.

2. Most of his bad defense numbers happen in Cleveland when he was young and dumb and they've gotten better as he got older.

Then tell me a better bigman on the market next year at his age that we can sign? I promise you JJ will be a hot target for many teams since he is probably the best bigman on the FA market at his age. So we won't be bidding against ourselves for his services.

[koolkatluke]

I've said in multiple threads that Mullens is one of the worst bigs in the NBA.. YUP IM SERIOUS ABOUT GIVING HIM A MAX!!!!! lol (sarcasm since you have a REALLY tough time grasping it)

Anyways, as everyone else is saying -- Hickson is NOT a max contract player. He is a nice rotational big on a very good team or a starter on a fringe playoff team. He just isn't worth that type of money and I legitimately think that you might be the only person in the world that thinks that. I haven't really looked at some of the better analysts predictions of where free agents will wind up, but I can pretty much guarantee you that no one thinks that Hickson will get close to a max contract. If you feel that we will have to overpay him to acquire his talents, well, that's another story. We very well may have to overpay him, but overpaying him would be offering something like 4/40, because most of his offers will be in the 3/24 or 4/30 range in my opinion. Teams are becoming more savvy these days in advanced metrics and JJ Hickson's advanced metrics aren't very good... really his defense is just AWFUL at either the 4 or the 5... I'm talking Mullens bad.

We will have to overpay somebody I'd rather overpay a young post playing PF then a old one.

And rotational guy really?? Just stop he is a solid starter for any team. How many players are avg. a double double right now in the league? When you figure that out you will understand how wrong you really are.

[ZB1224]

We will have to overpay somebody I'd rather overpay a young post playing PF then a old one.

I think that you are right in regards to having to overpay someone, but honestly I'd much rather overpay Jefferson or Pekovic than Hickson. I'm not saying that Hickson is garbage or anything, but I'd rather get someone more proven and not a liability on defense. I'm not saying that I am this brilliant basketball analyst or anything, but I definitely am well aware of advanced metrics that are out there for the public, and they all say that Hickson has been poor defensively. Part of it is that he is playing out of position, but he is honestly a 5 with a 4's body. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard a lot of these 4's that are in the NBA these days. Now I know that he's a pretty athletic big, but athleticism doesn't necessarily equate to good defense. Some stats from mySynergySports show the following:

DEFENSE

Ranked 357 in points per possession overall.

Ranked 199 in points per possession when defending the post up man (accounts for 44% of his defense).

Ranked 53 in points per possession when defending the PnR (accounts for 15% of his defense).

Ranked 132 in points per possession when defending the spot up shooter (accounts for 30% of his defense).

He has ranked even worse in previous years when playing the PF spot.

Offensively he is one of the worst post players in the NBA (ranked 124 in points per possession when in the post).

He pretty much gets all of his points off of cuts, offensive rebounds, and PnR. There is nothing wrong with that, but he's just not a 20 ppg scorer even on a bad team or even a 15 ppg scorer on a fringe playoff team. Just to not make him look all bad and no good -- he does rank 31 in points per possession when in PnR.

Just for reference (and no I don't think Mullens should get a max or even get significant PT next season)

Mullens is ranked:

DEFENSE

278 in points per possession overall.

205 in points per possession when defending the post up man.

88 in points per possession when defending PnR.

102 in points per possession when defending the spot up shooter.

[koolkatluke]

I think that you are right in regards to having to overpay someone, but honestly I'd much rather overpay Jefferson or Pekovic than Hickson. I'm not saying that Hickson is garbage or anything, but I'd rather get someone more proven and not a liability on defense. I'm not saying that I am this brilliant basketball analyst or anything, but I definitely am well aware of advanced metrics that are out there for the public, and they all say that Hickson has been poor defensively. Part of it is that he is playing out of position, but he is honestly a 5 with a 4's body. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard a lot of these 4's that are in the NBA these days. Now I know that he's a pretty athletic big, but athleticism doesn't necessarily equate to good defense. Some stats from mySynergySports show the following:

DEFENSE

Ranked 357 in points per possession overall.

Ranked 199 in points per possession when defending the post up man (accounts for 44% of his defense).

Ranked 53 in points per possession when defending the PnR (accounts for 15% of his defense).

Ranked 132 in points per possession when defending the spot up shooter (accounts for 30% of his defense).

He has ranked even worse in previous years when playing the PF spot.

Offensively he is one of the worst post players in the NBA (ranked 124 in points per possession when in the post).

He pretty much gets all of his points off of cuts, offensive rebounds, and PnR. There is nothing wrong with that, but he's just not a 20 ppg scorer even on a bad team or even a 15 ppg scorer on a fringe playoff team. Just to not make him look all bad and no good -- he does rank 31 in points per possession when in PnR.

Just for reference (and no I don't think Mullens should get a max or even get significant PT next season)

Mullens is ranked:

DEFENSE

278 in points per possession overall.

205 in points per possession when defending the post up man.

88 in points per possession when defending PnR.

102 in points per possession when defending the spot up shooter.

This why I don't understand your thinking.

Pekovic is avg. 2 more points and 3 less rebounds then Hickson. ALL while being 3 years older and playing his natural position.

And Jefferson who I really like is only avg. 4 more points and 2 less rebounds. All the while being 4 years older and getting more touches.

Like I said not to many people can Avg. a double double for a season. You have to pay for that.

Also the defense thing isn't the biggest problem. We have bigs who can block shots and we can draft some defensive bigs. But we don't have a post scorer or great rebounder. There isn't one in the draft.

Hickson is still young and does the stuff we need the most.

[thatlookseasy]

Nicola Vucevic and Omer Asik are also averaging double doubles this year, and also arent max players. Hickson is just not a go to player at this level, he is usually the 4th or 5th option on the court in Portland, and he never showed signs of being a big time player in Cleveland or Sacramento.

He is nice as a complementary guy, but you dont build a team around him

[ZB1224]

This why I don't understand your thinking.

Pekovic is avg. 2 more points and 3 less rebounds then Hickson. ALL while being 3 years older and playing his natural position.

And Jefferson who I really like is only avg. 4 more points and 2 less rebounds. All the while being 4 years older and getting more touches.

Like I said not to many people can Avg. a double double for a season. You have to pay for that.

Also the defense thing isn't the biggest problem. We have bigs who can block shots and we can draft some defensive bigs. But we don't have a post scorer or great rebounder. There isn't one in the draft.

Hickson is still young and does the stuff we need the most.

See, I do understand your thinking. You see Hickson's 13 ppg and 11 rpg at the age of 24 and you think "oh man he's prime to breakout", but this is his breakout season. I mean, yes it is possible that he gets better, but looking at this on the analytical side of things -- it's just not on his side. He's shooting 50% from mid range this season (the last three seasons he has shot 21%, 30%, 30%), and he's shooting a tad bit better in the paint this season (64% compared to 60% as his average). A lot of that is due to all of the talent around him. I mean, he's playing in a starting lineup with Lillard, Mathews, Batum, and Aldridge. You're logic is a bit flawed thinking that he'd be more productive playing in a lesser lineup like the Bobcats, but in reality advanced stats show that he'd slow down. He's being left largely uncovered for the most part due in large part to the Blazers having 4 better options on the court most of the time, along with three very good 3pt shooters and a fantastic mid range shooter in LA.

The reason why I like Pekovic so much is that his stats have remained extremely consistent for two years in a row now despite ever changing teammates. Pekovic is also a 7 footer who is a fantastic post player and a guy that, while he isn't a great shot blocker, he's a good presence to have inside due to his size.

The reason why I like Big Al Jefferson so much is because his stats have remained consistent for many years; you know exactly what you will get from him (close to 20 ppg and 10 rpg on 50% shooting). He's also one of the best post players in the NBA and has better than average size. The thing that I don't like about Jefferson is that at 6-10 he is a bit undersized for the C position (although he is 289), and his defense is simply average at his best. However you can feed him the ball inside and there is a good chance that he will score if he has good post position.

I guess it comes down to, would you rather overpay Pek, Jefferson, or Hickson? Do you want size, post player, an inside presence, but average rebounding (Pek), top post play, rebounding, extremely consistent play, but is stuck at a 5 due to his lack of athleticism (Jefferson), or an energy guy that will grab up rebounds at a high rate, always hustle, does very well in PnR, but is undersized and really stuck at the 5, judging by his lack of success at the 4 + poor defensively and has zero post game (Hickson).

*sorry for such long responses, but there is just a lot to say on this matter tbh