A little clarification on the DW situation, cut designations, and how it affects the cap

[CRA]

First off Armond Smith has 6 carries in his 2 seasons with us, hardly a replacement for Williams. Secondly he will cost 550,000 this year which when added to the 3.4 million in dead cap space equals almost 4 million for that slot. That is likely 2 million over what it would cost to keep Williams if he restructures based on my scenario. So we have a guy who has a total of 6 carries replacing a guy who is our franchise leader and most explosive back over 2 million in salary??

No Smith won't replace Williams and those in charge are smart enough to not even try that unless they have little choice by Williams not agreeing to the restructure.

If Stewart and Tolbert earn their checks....you don't NEED another RB to steal carries. You need a bench rider who you don't pay diddly.

Cam still gets his.

Point is to get AWAY from paying RBs....and you want to cut Willams and still being in a new guy to steal carries, pay well, and keep other guys from earning their checks.

[panthers55]

Carolina has most of the leverage...

Williams can take a paycut (big one) or be cut. They don't NEED him...he is a luxury. Cutting him essentially gives them the chance to use the created cap space despite paying him to leave to grab someone to make the team better.

He isn't going to take a big pay cut. What we will do is likely move some non guaranteed salary from 2014 to 2015 so we can reduce his salary and cap number next year in trade off for guaranteeing some of this year's salary to a signing bonus. The signing bonus takes the place of some of his non guaranteed salary this year cutting the cap number. By deferring some of his 2014 salary to 2015 we reduce his cap hit next year. If we cut him on 2015 all of that roster bonus isn't guaranteed anyway so we cut him with little consequence. That way we keep him this year and (he makes a few million more than he would normally would) which is why he signs it. it save us cap money this year and next year and we cut him either next year or in 2015 when his cap hit won't be that big or we can defer it to 2016 on a June 1 cut when there should be some TV money finally.

[panthers55]

If Stewart and Tolbert earn their checks....you don't NEED another RB to steal carries. You need a bench rider who you don't pay diddly.

Cam still gets his.

Stewart had surgery last month. His return is surely not guaranteed and Tolbert is great from 5 yards out but he is hardly a homerun hitter. Tolbert and Stewart are the same type of back and aren't explosive. No we can't carry on these 2 to carry the load.

[CRA]

He isn't going to take a big pay cut. What we will do is likely move some non guaranteed salary from 2014 to 2015 so we can reduce his salary and cap number next year in trade off for guaranteeing some of this year's salary to a signing bonus. The signing bonus takes the place of some of his non guaranteed salary this year cutting the cap number. By deferring some of his 2014 salary to 2015 we reduce his cap hit next year. If we cut him on 2015 all of that roster bonus isn't guaranteed anyway so we cut him with little consequence. That way we keep him this year and (he makes a few million more than he would normally would) which is why he signs it. it save us cap money this year and next year and we cut him either next year or in 2015 when his cap hit won't be that big or we can defer it to 2016 on a June 1 cut when there should be some TV money finally.

Then he should be cut.

To us, he is simply a luxury. He has no real leverage. Him leaving gives is opportunity to add a real player at an important position

Need to worry about being a better team instead of being a laughing stock of the league paying RBs to clap and drink Gatorade

[panthers55]

Then he should be cut.

To us, he is simply a luxury. He has no real leverage. Him leaving gives is opportunity to add a real player at an important position

Need to worry about being a better team instead of being a laughing stock of the league paying RBs to clap and drink Gatorade

He is a real player at an important position. Gettleman sees it, Rivera see it, most fans see it. You obviously don't. Until we replace him with someone better who is cheaper, he is still an important part of the offense.

[Kevin Greene]

Thanks for the cap facts, interesting.

This of course in nonsense and purely opinion:

Williams at this point in his career is a 750 yardish back with a 1,500 yard rusher's name. And all this crap about how it's the Oline's fault or the system's fault is giving me the dry heaves. If Williams was the calibre of player he's getting paid to be, he could've easily worked out at least 4 digits from behind the LOS with what he had out there. If Williams' success is that dependent on his teammates, he really isn't this cornerstone many people are making him out to be.

[CRA]

He is a real player at an important position. Gettleman sees it, Rivera see it, most fans see it. You obviously don't. Until we replace him with someone better who is cheaper, he is still an important part of the offense.

RB is way down the line in today's NFL......and we have a couple excluding Williams. You act as if he is ADrian Peterson and the cupboard is bare.

Rivera has essentially demoted Williams in 2 consecutive seasons.....you are reaching in your Williams must be a Panther argument.

Also, too early to assume what Gettlemen sees.....a bs politically correct answer in regards to a player that may have trade value is being overblown. He comes from an organization that didn't over value RBs and slowly kicked Earth, Wind and Fire to the curb. You remember them? They hit the scene about when Double Trouble did. They didn't overpay them, care to keep the fan fun trio together, and one by one said good bye.

And again, Williams doesn't have to be replaced now. If Stewart and Tolbert where earning their checks this year....there would be no carries for another RB to share. We do not need to find a starting RB if we cut Williams.

[Kevin Greene]

Rivera has essentially demoted Williams in 2 consecutive seasons.....you are reaching in your Williams must be a Panther argument.

You're assuming Rivera is making the right decisions.

The record on the field says otherwise.

Anyway, John Fox once sat DWill in favor of Deshaun Foster with bad knees.

The best option at a given position doesn't always see the field.

No one will argue DWill and Stewart are overpaid given their current situations.

The arguement I think is how best to maximize the situation our resident idiot Hurney put us in the next year or two.

[CRA]

You're assuming Rivera is making the right decisions.

The record on the field says otherwise.

Anyway, John Fox once sat DWill in favor of Deshaun Foster with bad knees.

The best option at a given position doesn't always see the field.

No one will argue DWill and Stewart are overpaid given their current situations.

The arguement I think is how best to maximize the situation our resident idiot Hurney put us in the next year or two.

Rivera's decisions are more important than mine or your opinion. If he is the coach, it helps of your GM gives him what he needs/wants.

[Kevin Greene]

Rivera's decisions are more important than mine or your opinion. If he is the coach, it helps of your GM gives him what he needs/wants.

They certainly are, especially when they are wrong.

[CRA]

They certainly are, especially when they are wrong.

Rivera has made many calls that were correct that didn't work.....didn't work bc his GM have him backups to start at many positions bc of investing in areas that essentially get wasted.

Marty overpaid and overstocked RBs....forced Rivera to look to start guys like Nakamura, 5th round rookie CBs etc.....and we lose games like Atl, Chi, Tampa, etc. Rivera didn't make bad calls....those are games your team generally wins for you pending you aren't starting backups (and not due to injury but that is simply the best you can field).

He demoted Williams in 2011 and many have claimed that healthy Stewart season generated one of the Greatest rush attacks in HISTORY and best overall in Panther history. He just needs the right bodies....he has been handicapped by injury and Hurney

[Kevin Greene]

Rivera has made many calls that were correct that didn't work.....didn't work bc his GM have him backups to start at many positions bc of investing in areas that essentially get wasted.

Obviously, Hurney sucks

Some would also argue hiring Rivera was a call that didn't work as well.

Sadly all of Panther land is still dealing with the fall out, and will be for another season or two.

Hopefully Gettleman can get the financial woes straightened out so in a year or two the Panthers can field a roster that can compete with the best in the NFL.

[frash.exe]

Thanks for the cap facts, interesting.

This of course in nonsense and purely opinion:

It's a stone cold fact brother

[frash.exe]

The question is absolutely why you would let all that dead cap money go for no production.

Because the money you save is enough to get more production overall on your team

Sure we can all look at Alfred Morris who was a 6th rounder who played much better than expected and say that those guys are everywhere but how is it that we never seem to find that guy.

Because we haven't even tried

Exactly how many guys have we drafted outside of the first round who have become big rushing stars for us.

Again, haven't tried

Sure there is always the exception to the rule but you don't expect to find them all the time.

you'd be surprised to find that in the last two drafts there's a distinct proportion of guys from rounds 4-6 that have proven they could get half of what DeAngelo's churned

Using that logic we should have passed on Newton and went with a 6th round guy because Brady was a 6th rounder that did well and we could always hit a home run like New England did.

No, you don't use that logic on the QB position because it is the most important and influential position on the field today. In contrast, this logic applies well to RB, which is today arguably one of the least valuable and disposable positions on the field.

At this point we haven't shown that we have a back who can run for 16 games with no problem and have had to resort to a 2 back system.

Um, that sort of stuff happens to backs on every other team as well. But if the Patriots or the Giants don't feel the need to pay more than 10 million to their running back core, why the hell should we?

I would have hated to watch us struggle last year with no Stewart or Williams.

Your perception of their value on this team is way too high.

There is no reason we have to do the same thing this year. Sure if you were making this decision with no dead cap space going forward you likely would do what the OP is suggesting which is look for a cheaper option with Stewart already restructured.

It's not very often teams cut players with no consequence. Just recently, the Giants racked up 6.6 million in dead money for 2013 alone after cutting several veterans.

But that isn't the situation at all. It is dump him and eat 9.6 million through much of the free agency period even if you designate him a June 1st cut, keep him and have 1.4 million less of a cap hit until June 1st and then decide what to do, or restructure him and save cap space now which allows you to use him this year for a reduced cap hit and face no more in dead cap space next year. You would have dead cap space in 2015 but given the dead cap space goes down by 3.4 million each year we keep him, the effect on the cap wouldn't be worse than dumping him now but you have him to use.

In the long-term view we have a lot of money strapped already and by that time DeAngelo will be 32. It's not a terrible idea to get rid of bad contracts given to players that don't fit the team's best interests in their future vision. The Colts just did this on a massive scale last year and had a huge amount of dead money, and despite that the players they replaced those overpaid vets with helped the team reach the playoffs after going 2-14 just one year before. What happened with the Colts was they fired their GM from the prior season, hired a new one, and he looked over the roster, assessed the players' individual values and figured out who had a bad contract given their future value to the team. One of those players, Dallas Clark, was a guy who at one point had been a valuable asset to the team (which is why he got the contract he did) but had two underwhelming performances the last two years largely due to injury and whose career seemed to be waning. So they cut him, took a cap hit of over 5 million for 2012 and drafted 2 tight ends that combined for over 800 yards and 5 touchdowns.

Here's another way you could look at cutting Williams and designating him post-June 1st. Let's say the Panthers dump some of their larger contracts and end up clearing to about 12 million under the cap. Then they decide to snip Williams from the roster and designate him a June 1st cut. If they plan to sign about 3 affordable and reliable vets to fill some glaring holes, they can still do that even if they cut Williams and take a 1.5 million hit, and there's an easy explanation for this. ...When you draft your picks at the end of April, they don't immediately go to the front office and sign those guys. None of those picks need to be signed until July. And by that time, the June 1st designation will come into effect and open up the millions needed to sign those draft picks.

It isn't that hard to figure out.