Building blocks for a team from NFC South on ESPN

[CanadianCat]

the AFC West list is BRUTAL!!!!

[Snake]

in 07 williams averaged 5.0 yards per carry...and let's take a look at the 07 season with the horrible o-line.

on paper, williams only had 3 good games that season...arizona, dallas, and tampa bay. these were the only games where he averaged 5.0 ypc or more.

in reality, he only had one good quality game. arizona.

in the dallas game, his longest run was 39 yards...without that run, he averaged 2.7 ypc.

in the tampa bay game...tampa bay had already locked up the division and rested many of their starters.

for at least 8 games that season, williams ypc was below 4.0.

if 3 out of 16 games is what you call productive behind a bad o-line, then so be it.

let's fast forward to last season...

the first 8 games of the season, williams was almost non existent. he couldn't out perform a rookie who missed damn near the entire offseason recovering from surgery.

why?

it wasn't until midway thru the season that the o-line was healthy and able to develop continuity

turner played behind lesser o-lines last season and in 07. he averged 4.5 ypc both those seasons.

in the 3 seasons before when the chargers had terrific o-lines, turner averaged 5.2 (2004), 5.9 (2005), and 6.3 (2006) ypc.

his carries may have been limited those years, but he was effective when he touched the ball behind a good o-line.

Geez man you just dont get it do you....... Let me see if I can beat it into you just the same. When Dwill was a rookie Turner only had .6 more yards a game then Dwill did and was behind one of the best backs in the league at that time and one of the best O-lines. In 2007 behind the same back and O-line Turner only avg 19.8 yards a game to Dwill's 44.8 YPG. So your facts dont add up. Dwill was just as consistent and better in games then Turner was. Add to the fact that SD scored almost twice as many points as we did in both 2006 and 2007 and that even more increase the fact that they didn't have to go threw the air to catch up in games like we did.

[bleys]

Kalil? I mean, I like the guy alot, but you think he's the 4th best player in the division?

not saying I agree, but Yas said the list isn't about the "top 10 best players"... it's who would you build your team around, and a really efficient center would be in there I would think...

My response to Pat would be this: Picture Williams with 100 more carries. Now, picture Turner with 100 fewer carries. I rest my case.

regardless of people's opinion, this would speak volumes and there wouldn't be any discussion going on now.

you are talking big numbers here, not just 100 extra yards... And even if you think Turner is better, there is a reason Yas wanted DWill in there.. Turner might not last another 3 years... He was talking about "building a franchise around".. You don't need 2 all star RBs for that. He could have dropped Turner and brought in a Center or key ingredient... And drafted a RB to share carries...

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Geez man you just dont get it do you....... Let me see if I can beat it into you just the same. When Dwill was a rookie Turner only had .6 more yards a game then Dwill did and was behind one of the best backs in the league at that time and one of the best O-lines. In 2007 behind the same back and O-line Turner only avg 19.8 yards a game to Dwill's 44.8 YPG. So your facts dont add up. Dwill was just as consistent and better in games then Turner was. Add to the fact that SD scored almost twice as many points as we did in both 2006 and 2007 and that even more increase the fact that they didn't have to go threw the air to catch up in games like we did.

wow, you give me negative rep for criticizing people?

wait...who the hell did i criticize?

bottom line, williams didn't become the RB that some of you have been dying for him to become until the o-line developed.

the proof is even more evident when you compare his stats before the bye week and after...

games 1-8...130 attempts, 522 yards, 3 tds, 4.0 ypc, 1 run of 30+ yards, 2 100+ yard games.

the first half of the season is the same decent production with flashes of highlight material here and there that he's done the previous 2 years.

games 9-16...143 attempts, 993 yards, 15 tds, 7 ypc, 6+ runs of 30+ yards, 6 100+ yard games.

his carries were split almost down the middle and his running style didn't change, yet his stats exploded almost overnight.

the only thing that changed was the o-line.

the o-lines turner ran behind in 07-08 were not as good as the o-lines the 3 previous years. thus the drop in ypc the last 2 years vs. the increase in each of the previous 3.

put turner (or any of the top RBs in the league) behind the same o-line williams ran behind the second half of the season and you have the case that the writer is making.

it seems like the second someone says something other than deangelo williams is the greatest thing to bless the game of football since it's creation, they're blindfolded and tied to a pole in front of a firing squad.

[Peppers90 NC]

ugh 3 MLB's, Pat, YOU SUCK!

[beastson]

he gave a very valid point as to why...and i agree with him.

both may have had 1500+ yards last season, but turner did it behind a line that isn't built for rushing.

lol yea lets see what turner turn up this year

[Snake]

wow, you give me negative rep for criticizing people?

wait...who the hell did i criticize?

bottom line, williams didn't become the RB that some of you have been dying for him to become until the o-line developed.

the proof is even more evident when you compare his stats before the bye week and after...

games 1-8...130 attempts, 522 yards, 3 tds, 4.0 ypc, 1 run of 30+ yards, 2 100+ yard games.

the first half of the season is the same decent production with flashes of highlight material here and there that he's done the previous 2 years.

games 9-16...143 attempts, 993 yards, 15 tds, 7 ypc, 6+ runs of 30+ yards, 6 100+ yard games.

his carries were split almost down the middle and his running style didn't change, yet his stats exploded almost overnight.

the only thing that changed was the o-line.

the o-lines turner ran behind in 07-08 were not as good as the o-lines the 3 previous years. thus the drop in ypc the last 2 years vs. the increase in each of the previous 3.

put turner (or any of the top RBs in the league) behind the same o-line williams ran behind the second half of the season and you have the case that the writer is making.

it seems like the second someone says something other than deangelo williams is the greatest thing to bless the game of football since it's creation, they're blindfolded and tied to a pole in front of a firing squad.

Lovely how you say Turner was better because he was behind a bad line that gave LT 1000 yards+ that season and gave Turner 1000+ last year. The fact is ATLs line was just as good as ours was at run blocking. The only Difference was Dwill had more break away runs and split carries. Make Turner Split like he had to with LT and yep he would have been right back like he was for several years. Turners a good back but Dwill showed he was a great one because of what he did in our system. Stewart might be better though with a year or two.

Oh BTW Yea I gave you a neg cause you just call people out and dont have any reason of your own. You were just lurking and waiting for someone to give there's so you could attack it.

[pepaw]

wow, you give me negative rep for criticizing people?

wait...who the hell did i criticize?

bottom line, williams didn't become the RB that some of you have been dying for him to become until the o-line developed.

the proof is even more evident when you compare his stats before the bye week and after...

games 1-8...130 attempts, 522 yards, 3 tds, 4.0 ypc, 1 run of 30+ yards, 2 100+ yard games.

the first half of the season is the same decent production with flashes of highlight material here and there that he's done the previous 2 years.

games 9-16...143 attempts, 993 yards, 15 tds, 7 ypc, 6+ runs of 30+ yards, 6 100+ yard games.

his carries were split almost down the middle and his running style didn't change, yet his stats exploded almost overnight.

the only thing that changed was the o-line.

the o-lines turner ran behind in 07-08 were not as good as the o-lines the 3 previous years. thus the drop in ypc the last 2 years vs. the increase in each of the previous 3.

put turner (or any of the top RBs in the league) behind the same o-line williams ran behind the second half of the season and you have the case that the writer is making.

it seems like the second someone says something other than deangelo williams is the greatest thing to bless the game of football since it's creation, they're blindfolded and tied to a pole in front of a firing squad.

I don't agree with everyone jumping down his throat but I do think D Will progressed as a player throughout the season as well as the O line starting to click.

[carpanfan96]

qualcomm stadium is grass.

look at what he did there.

He had 20 carries at home in his first season, 5.2 ypc no td's

at home he only had a 4.0 ypc average in 2005

in 2005 on grass - 45 - 204 yards - 4.5 av - 1 fumble

in 2006

he didn't play on turf much and had like 5 carries. So his 6.2 ypc was pretty much all on grass. same for his yards.

in 2007

316 yards on 69 carries on grass. 1 fumble

in 2008

136 carries - 536 yards - 3.9 av with 1 of his Td's on Grass/outdoors even though that was over a third of his carries. 3 fumbles

Dwill Just on Grass

2006

Grass - 78 car - 338 yrds - 21 rec - 232 yrds 1 td - 1 fumble

2007

Grass - 111 carries - 585 yrds - 4 td - 22 rec 164 yards 1 td - 1 fumble

2008

195 carries 1101 yards - 5.6 ypc - 13 td - 18 rec - 85 yrds - 2 td

Career totals

Turner - 604 car - 2956 yrds - 4.9 ypc - 23 td's - 17 rec - 112 yards - 0 td- 5 fum

Williams -538 car - 2733 yrds - 5.1 ypc - 23 td's - 78 rec - 609 yards - 4 td - 2 fum

Hard to judge and I'd say they are pretty even with different str and weaknesses.

Williams gets my vote though because he's a more complete back with a better ability to catch the ball out of the back field.

[Fox007]

ugh 3 MLB's, Pat, YOU SUCK!

Yea this is what I was going to comment on.

He starts building his defense up with 3 MLB's and 0 D-Linemen, brilliant.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Lovely how you say Turner was better because he was behind a bad line that gave LT 1000 yards+ that season and gave Turner 1000+ last year

.

it's obvious some people don't see how good carolina's o-line really is. turner wouldn't need as many carries as he did last season had his o-line been as good as carolina's was the second half of the season...

The fact is ATLs line was just as good as ours was at run blocking. The only Difference was Dwill had more break away runs and split carries.

atlanta's line is not as good as carolina's.

put a good back behind a decent o-line and keep feeding them the ball, and they're going to make plays. (ie. turner last year and williams his first 2 1/2 years in carolina).

put a good back behind a very good o-line and he won't need as many touches to be effective...williams the second half of last season.

Oh BTW Yea I gave you a neg cause you just call people out and dont have any reason of your own. You were just lurking and waiting for someone to give there's so you could attack it.

who did i call out?

who did i attack? and why didn't the person who i attack give me negative rep, or even respond to it in the thread.

you jumped in this thread a day after it started and went straight for me. as a matter of fact, you have yet to respond to anyone other than me.

so who's lurking and attacking?

the problem is some people on this forum get seriously offended when the williams bandwagon makes it's rounds and a person doesn't jump on.

bottom line, when you get a banged up rookie who missed almost the entire offseason and a vet who at the most has only flashed promise over the past 2 1/2 seasons and statisticly done nothing and both of them set franchise and nfl records...it's time to give credit where credit is due.

some of us might have been blinded by the highlights both stewart and williams gave us last season and never heard the commentators brag countless times about the blocking these guys got to run behind.

should they stay healthy next season, don't be surprised if carolina's big uglies are referred to as the best in the league.

[monstercat]

He had 20 carries at home in his first season, 5.2 ypc no td's

at home he only had a 4.0 ypc average in 2005

in 2005 on grass - 45 - 204 yards - 4.5 av - 1 fumble

in 2006

he didn't play on turf much and had like 5 carries. So his 6.2 ypc was pretty much all on grass. same for his yards.

in 2007

316 yards on 69 carries on grass. 1 fumble

in 2008

136 carries - 536 yards - 3.9 av with 1 of his Td's on Grass/outdoors even though that was over a third of his carries. 3 fumbles

Dwill Just on Grass

2006

Grass - 78 car - 338 yrds - 21 rec - 232 yrds 1 td - 1 fumble

2007

Grass - 111 carries - 585 yrds - 4 td - 22 rec 164 yards 1 td - 1 fumble

2008

195 carries 1101 yards - 5.6 ypc - 13 td - 18 rec - 85 yrds - 2 td

Career totals

Turner - 604 car - 2956 yrds - 4.9 ypc - 23 td's - 17 rec - 112 yards - 0 td- 5 fum

Williams -538 car - 2733 yrds - 5.1 ypc - 23 td's - 78 rec - 609 yards - 4 td - 2 fum

Hard to judge and I'd say they are pretty even with different str and weaknesses.

Williams gets my vote though because he's a more complete back with a better ability to catch the ball out of the back field.

Great post. There is no doubt that D-Will has had a very good YPC average from day 1. His problem was learning how to maximize his conditioning (meaning...not getting caught from behind because he's tired) and learning how to do the dirty work (pass blocking) that a starting NFL RB has to do.