Building blocks for a team from NFC South on ESPN

[Carolina Crazy V2]

What a homer

[mmmbeans]

And he did it with a hundred more carries. Williams has proven he can do the most with less, more than any other back in the league.

My ten.

Brees

Smith

Gross

Kalil

Beason

Peppers

Abraham

Williams

Gamble

Roddy White

Kalil? I mean, I like the guy alot, but you think he's the 4th best player in the division?

[OneBadassCat]

Kalil? I mean, I like the guy alot, but you think he's the 4th best player in the division?

Well that list was in no particular order but I think Kalil is slowing becoming one of the best center's in the game and super bowl teams have great centers. Simply having Gross on the line is not enough. I was going to pick Otah over Kalil but I think that group could get by without a mauling RT with Brees, Smith and White. I think Kalil would be an essential piece.

[hdevonxz]

so what you both are saying is that neither one of your points has anything to do with having a better o-line...

incredible.

no...........I implied that after going through the hole opened up by good blockers Dwill did more by making guys miss, making good cut backs, and getting to the endzone period.

[SCpanther]

Everyone always brings up the blocking when discussing Turner vs. Williams but I think people are seriously underrating Atlanta's run blocking. I watched most of Atlanta's games last season (hoping to see them lose) and their run blocking was not far behind ours. Look at most of Turner's big runs and he had big holes to run through as well (just like most other backs who do well).

[SCpanther]

It's a close call between Turner and Williams, but I'll be happy to let them share carries. For those who disagree with the order, picture Williams behind Atlanta's offensive line. Now, picture Turner behind Carolina's. I rest my case.

My response to Pat would be this: Picture Williams with 100 more carries. Now, picture Turner with 100 fewer carries. I rest my case.

[Snake]

he gave a very valid point as to why...and i agree with him.

both may have had 1500+ yards last season, but turner did it behind a line that isn't built for rushing.

Dwill had 5.2 YPC in 07 and that was behind a horrible O-line and splitting time with a lessor back. Also Tunner didnt spit carries and Dwill did so its unfair to use his rush yards as a reason.

[DOUBLETROUBLE28]

williams 5.5 ypc turner 4.5 ypc

[DaveThePanther2008]

My response to Pat would be this: Picture Williams with 100 more carries. Now, picture Turner with 100 fewer carries. I rest my case.

Better yet give both of the the same amount of carries. 50 more for Williams and 50 less for Turner. The difference would be astounding.

I also believed someone pointed out in another thread that Turner was far and above better on turf than grass. Atl had 1/2 their games on turf. Williams I believe was 6.

[GRWatcher]

You have to put Brad Hoover on that list and Turner would take off too.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Dwill had 5.2 YPC in 07 and that was behind a horrible O-line and splitting time with a lessor back. Also Tunner didnt spit carries and Dwill did so its unfair to use his rush yards as a reason.

in 07 williams averaged 5.0 yards per carry...and let's take a look at the 07 season with the horrible o-line.

on paper, williams only had 3 good games that season...arizona, dallas, and tampa bay. these were the only games where he averaged 5.0 ypc or more.

in reality, he only had one good quality game. arizona.

in the dallas game, his longest run was 39 yards...without that run, he averaged 2.7 ypc.

in the tampa bay game...tampa bay had already locked up the division and rested many of their starters.

for at least 8 games that season, williams ypc was below 4.0.

if 3 out of 16 games is what you call productive behind a bad o-line, then so be it.

let's fast forward to last season...

the first 8 games of the season, williams was almost non existent. he couldn't out perform a rookie who missed damn near the entire offseason recovering from surgery.

why?

it wasn't until midway thru the season that the o-line was healthy and able to develop continuity

turner played behind lesser o-lines last season and in 07. he averged 4.5 ypc both those seasons.

in the 3 seasons before when the chargers had terrific o-lines, turner averaged 5.2 (2004), 5.9 (2005), and 6.3 (2006) ypc.

his carries may have been limited those years, but he was effective when he touched the ball behind a good o-line.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

You have to put Brad Hoover on that list and Turner would take off too.

...or lorenzo neal. anyone remember him?

who is atlanta's FB anyway?

[nosuchthingasapanther]

I also believed someone pointed out in another thread that Turner was far and above better on turf than grass. Atl had 1/2 their games on turf. Williams I believe was 6.

qualcomm stadium is grass.

look at what he did there.

[Falcons1stPanthers2nd]

...or lorenzo neal. anyone remember him?

who is atlanta's FB anyway?

Ovie Mughelli. He's a top 5 FB in the NFL..... My point is the difference is negligible and that it's pointless arguing.