Everything you need to know about our cap, potential cuts and free agents.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Awesome.

Here is my question for you. Is it possible for D'Will and Beason to renegoitate their contracts without affecting the future cap situation?

I would think both of these guys want to stay. Beason has had free money for two years. I have no doubt he will come back strong in 2013. If we could somehow renegotiate his contract similiar to T. Davis then maybe we could work it out. Most teams aren't going to throw the bank at a player that has played less then 10 games in 2 years. So we might have some leverage there.

DeAngelo, I would love to see stay. I believe 2013 is going to be a monster year for him. Regardless of where he may go. If he has to go wouldn't a trade be possible? He still has a couple of years left on his current contract. If we trade him doesn't his signing bonus go with him? If Not, are we stuck with his bonus for 2013 cap? Or can it be spread out over a couple of years.

Thanks

P4L you should be an assist for our new GM.

As far as Shula is concerned. I think the circus that Chudz carried us through won't occur. I think he has a better understanding of Cam and his abilities and how to use him than Chudz did. I believe Chudz was so overwhelmed with his toy that he figured anything he did would work.

Shula seems to me to be a little bit more intelligent and has the pedigree to know how to use a commodity like Cam.

[Firefox]

.

DeAngelo, I would love to see stay. I believe 2013 is going to be a monster year for him. Regardless of where he may go. If he has to go wouldn't a trade be possible? He still has a couple of years left on his current contract. If we trade him doesn't his signing bonus go with him? If Not, are we stuck with his bonus for 2013 cap? Or can it be spread out over a couple of years.

No the signing bonus has already been paid, and you don't get to trade it. Once cut or traded you take the hit that is left.

[panther4life]

So with a new GM in place, does it look like it'll only take a couple of offseasons to be rid of most of these horrible Hurney contracts? Seems like if we go with your suggestions, we'll be in decent cap shape by the time we need to pay Cam and Hardy. Does that seem accurate?

Yea the ability is there. Hurney had a plan in mind and things would not seem so terrible if we actually lived up to the preseason hype of Kaili and many fans(myself included).

Unfortunately nobody saw Chud going full retard and Rivera not learning from his mistakes in his rookie year.

Its hard to say exactly where things went wrong for this franchise. Upon the arrival of the Hurney/Fox combo we rebounded from being the worst team in franchise history and showed some promise in 2002. In 03 we followed up on that promise and made the Super Bowl.

In 2004 the injury bug demolished us, it really did.

Then in 05 everything was back on track and we made it to the NFC Championship after going 11-5 in the regular season.

2006..."It is what it is", starts getting a little old. Foxball starts to lose its luster and we go a ho hum 8-8. Jenkins became more vocal about this the next year and eventually was wholesaled away to the jets because of it.

2007- Was a screwed up year. "Tommy Jone" anyone? David Carr and his white gloves, Vinny T pulls a Favre, etc.

2008- This is where panic mode sets in and everything goes down hill. We drafted Stewart and traded for Otah 6 picks later so that we can play Foxball at its finest. Worked out great during the regular season as we ran the hell over everybody. Then we had to play from behind and Jake goes into gunslinger mode...you know the rest.

***Timeout*** Fox asked for an extension, JR declined. Said he wanted more consistency,specifically back to back winning seasons. Fug that noise. We should have cleaned housed and started over right now(rebuilding).

2009-So with the pressure on Fox/Hurney and no 1st round pick(Otah) poo goes wrong, very wrong. Peppers already wanted out at this point, as I assume he soured on Foxball much like Jenkins did. Peppers would have been a devastating loss for Fox/Hurney who are no longer thinking long term, they just want to save their jobs for another year. So they Franchise the bastard at an ungodly amount. There was no free agent QB that would have been an upgrade over Jake, so his agent capitalizes and proceeds to rape us. We go all defense and a running back and a fullback in the draft to fully support Foxball. Of course the writing was already on the wall with Peppers so we had to find his replacement and failed miserabley at that when we drafted Everette Brown.

2010- Jerry beings work on his piechart and decides its not cost effective to part ways with Fox when he has a year left on his contract. Meanwhile Hurney's only task is to purge the roster of any high priced vet's and is not allowed to extend anyone after the Delhomme failure. Matt Moore is the starting qb and Steve Smith starts interviewing realtors, what could possibly wrong?

2011- Jerry says Hurney go resign everybody and show the world I'm not cheap. Welcome to cap hell and the world record for moral victories in a season.

2012- Cut back on pipe if you need a recap here.

13-???

[panther4life]

Again, you can't avoid the $3.75 mil hit in 2013. The remaining guaranteed hit is $15.75 mil, not $12 mil.

Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.

[davos]

some good sh*t in this thread

[carpanfan96]

Seen different answers, but I'll take my stab at it.

$20,000,00 SB (6 yr contract, but 5 yr max spread) = $4,000,00 per year cap hit x 3 years left = $12,000,000 yet to go / 2 (if June 1) = $6,000,000 per year.

$6,000,000 + $3,750,000 (paid in 2013 guaranteed) = $9,750,000 2013 cap hit.

$6,000,000 dead cap hit in 2014.

$9,750,000 vs $9,500,000 is worse.

Correct.

Beason get's that 3.75 Million no matter what the team does. His dead money for this season would include that amount.

To the OP, Sport trac doesn't show that amount he's owed and is wrong on a few other contracts as well because they don't show years with guaranteed money owed.

Also June 1st cut's don't help the team get under the cap as the money isn't available till the 1st of June.

You can see Beason's full contract here by clicking contract details.

http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent

Edit: I forgot to add this earlier.

The above numbers for cap hits aren't correct though. With how the June 1st cut works is that Beason's Singing Bonus dead money would be spread over the two years as follows

4 million this season

8 million next season.

Which leaves the team with the following dead money from Beason's contract.

2013 - 7.75m dead money

2014 - 8m dead money

Saving the team as follows over the two years

2013 - 1.25 million in savings

2014 - 2.75 million in savings

Total savings of 4 million.

DeAngelo Williams contract would break down in a similar fashion with 9.6 million being spread over the two years using the NFL's June 1st cap rules.

3.2 million in dead money for 2013

6.4 million in dead money for 2014

2013 - 5 million in savings.

2014 - 2.8 million in savings.

You get those numbers by subtracting the dead money from that player's cap hit in that year.

Example

Williams has a cap hit of 9.2 Million next season, if you subtract his dead money from that you get 2.8 million in savings.

So if the team decides to cut Williams and Beason and designate them as June 1st cuts the team will save 11.8 Million over the next two years with dead money from those two combining for 7.2 million in dead money this season and 14.4 Million in the 2014 season.

[Firefox]

Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.c...ers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.

Dude, from the contract he and Hurney negotiated.

"Add the fact that former GM Marty Hurney structured contracts that includes years where portions of a player's base salary is guaranteed on top of their bonus money (e.g. $3.75 million of Beason's 2013 base salary), the cap benefits of cutting any of these players doesn't match the cost of losing talent. Guaranteed money always counts against the cap, and Hurney gave out a lot of guaranteed money."

Jon Beason, LB

Four years remaining on a six-year, $51.388 million dollar contract, $25 million guaranteed money

2013 Cap Figure: $9.5 million; Cap savings if cut: None, cap figure will increase by $6.25 million to $15.75 million

http://www.catscratc...y-cap-situation

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason

[rayzor]

just another site to muddy the water re: beason's contract

http://www.overtheca...B&Team=Panthers

Year 2013

Base Salary $5,250,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $9,500,000

Dead Money $12,000,000

Cap Savings ($2,500,000)

Year 2014

Base Salary $6,500,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $10,750,000

Dead Money $8,000,000

Cap Savings $2,750,000

Year 2015

Base Salary $7,500,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $11,750,000

Dead Money $4,000,000

Cap Savings $7,750,000

Year 2016

Base Salary $8,750,000

Prorated Bonus $0

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $9,000,000

Dead Money $0

Cap Savings $9,000,000

[UNCrules2187]

Where are you getting this 3.75 from? http://www.spotrac.c...ers/jon-beason/

If you look that over there 12 million in signing bonus or guaranteed money unpaid. Signing bonus is the only guaranteed money.

$3.75m of the $5.75m base salary was guaranteed as part of Beason's signing bonus:

7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $51.338 million contract. The deal contains $25 million guaranteed -- a $20 million signing bonus, Beason's first two base salaries, and $3.75 million of his 2013 salary. 2013: $5.25 million, 2014: $6.5 million, 2015: $7.5 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld...4192/jon-beason

edit: whoops, should have hit "next page" to see I was beaten like a drum on this :|

[Ivan The Awesome]

Ways to save without using June 1st rule and piling up dead money for 2014 as well

Cutting Gross would save us 10.7 Million

Cutting Gamble would save us 8.95 million

Cutting Ron Edwards would save us 2.5 million

Cutting Gary Williams would save us 1.125 Million

Cutting Hangartner would save 1.575

Cutting Nakumara would save $967,000

My body is ready.

[panther4life]

just another site to muddy the water re: beason's contract

http://www.overtheca...B&Team=Panthers

Year 2013

Base Salary $5,250,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $9,500,000

Dead Money $12,000,000

Cap Savings ($2,500,000)

Year 2014

Base Salary $6,500,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $10,750,000

Dead Money $8,000,000

Cap Savings $2,750,000

Year 2015

Base Salary $7,500,000

Prorated Bonus $4,000,000

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $11,750,000

Dead Money $4,000,000

Cap Savings $7,750,000

Year 2016

Base Salary $8,750,000

Prorated Bonus $0

Roster Bonus $0

Workout Bonus $250,000

Other Bonus $0

Cap Number $9,000,000

Dead Money $0

Cap Savings $9,000,000

That site is awesome, thanks Rayzor. He even has a sortable table to see how much you could save by cutting any player on the roster. Granted it does not show the savings of a June 1st cut but still.

Here's the chart I was talking about http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Panthers&Year=2013

[carpanfan96]

Once again the problem with that site is that it doesn't include guaranteed money owed to the players. It is a nice site though, would be even better if they factored that sort of stuff into the equation though.

I just added this to my above post as I forgot to add it earlier and it's pretty important to the discussion about June 1st cuts.

The above numbers for cap hits aren't correct though. With how the June 1st cut works is that Beason's Singing Bonus dead money would be spread over the two years as follows

4 million this season

8 million next season.

Which leaves the team with the following dead money from Beason's contract.

2013 - 7.75m dead money

2014 - 8m dead money

Saving the team as follows over the two years

2013 - 1.25 million in savings

2014 - 2.75 million in savings

Total savings of 4 million.

DeAngelo Williams contract would break down in a similar fashion with 9.6 million being spread over the two years using the NFL's June 1st cap rules.

3.2 million in dead money for 2013

6.4 million in dead money for 2014

2013 - 5 million in savings.

2014 - 2.8 million in savings.

You get those numbers by subtracting the dead money from that player's cap hit in that year.

Example

Williams has a cap hit of 9.2 Million next season, if you subtract his dead money from that you get 2.8 million in savings.

So if the team decides to cut Williams and Beason and designate them as June 1st cuts the team will save 11.8 Million over the next two years with dead money from those two combining for 7.2 million in dead money this season and 14.4 Million in the 2014 season.

[Marguide]

Just a couple of clarifications on the original post:

1) Signing bonuses are spread over the first 5 years of a contract, not 6.

2) Draft picks count at the rookie minimum until they sign their deals (typically late summer), so they have little impact on the cap until post June 1st.

3) For most of the offseason, only the top 51 players count against the cap.

And just to elaborate on one other point...when you visit a site like Spotrac, be sure to look at guaranteed money as well as signing bonus. For example, if a player had $20 million guaranteed in their contract, and received a signing bonus of $15 million, they still have $5 million remaining that is guaranteed. If they are going into the 3rd year of their deal, and their salaries the first 2 years were $1 million each, they still have at least $3 million left in guaranteed dollars (maybe more depending on how the deal is structured).

[Kevin Greene]

What of the optional 3.6 million 2012 carry over money? I posted a thread on it last night.