Continuity not Capability

[FootballMaestro]

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

I agree wholeheartedly. And please don't let me get into a diatribe, about the amount of times Rivera (through out the year), trusted his defense, effectively keeping the Panther offense off the field (via the oppositions TOP via trust in his 'bend but don't break' defense), as well as making decisions--not believing in his offense (and subsequently his defense), which kept the oppositions offense on the field, and effectively winning them games for Panthers losses.

No matter what the defense does, the offense is the strength of this team. And the moment you believe in this defense (until shown otherwise) they will disappoint you.

As I said in another thread: Indy had the 29th rated defense. But guess what? When they made those 7th 4th quarter comebacks, their defense held, for Indy to win and Luck to get the credit for them. When the Panthers had 4th Qtr leads (many times with precious little time on the clock), the Panthers higher rated defense, folded like a cheap suit.

And if Rivera continues to trust and believe in his defense first (instead of scoring as many points as you can, until it's 2min left in the game, and you have the ball and a first down), then he'll never learn his lesson and be a winning, mind you good coach.

Until we see differently, we all know Ron can't coach (especially offensively) with pressure or when the games count/are on the line. Because of this, I don't understand why Rivera, shouldn't try to score as many points as possible. This way, the games don't have to be close, where Rivera has to rely one or two tough decisions.

SMH

[Fox007]

Lol

He has never seen a game called by Shula, but he knows best,

Unfortunately he will get to experience that....

We'll see just how much continuity they have after Shula runs this offense into the ground. I have a feeling their buddy buddy days will be short lived.(talking about Cam and Shula)

If Cam wanted a suggestion box before with the 5th and 12th ranked offense....oh boy can't wait.

[panthers55]

Can we all agree that Shula could not run an offense in the 90s especially when his head coach wanted a ground and pound and the rules didn't really favor passing as much as it does these days.

But the jury is still out on what he has learned in the past decade, what has been different since he was last an OC and what Rivera wants to run in Carolina in 2013. Somehow I think that Rivera talked about the past and how things need to be right now. I also think that Shula was involved in putting together this system and working with Cam to make sure he is comfortable in this offense. We assume everything is Chud's idea and that is not likely the case. I would bet you that Shula had a lot to say in this offense and can run it as well as Chud, maybe better. Chud himself said that Shula was heavily involved and would be fine.

People who keep harkening back to the 90s to evaluate Shula don't still use cassette and VHS tapes in their electronics. They have changed with the times. Why do they think Shula hasn't changed either?

[Zod]

For the last time it doesn't matter what offense he runs.

The problem is he has always been severely outcoached in the NFL and college.

Does being a QB coach make you a better play caller? Not so sure.

[rayzor]

For the last time it doesn't matter what offense he runs.

The problem is he has always been severely outcoached in the NFL and college.

Does being a QB coach make you a better play caller? Not so sure.

but he and cam are bffs!!!!!!

[GRWatcher]

If you know the history of Mike Shula then you know he was able to make the playoffs several times with an all time great defense and an anemic offense in Tampa. Tony Dungy was the head coach and was able to manage games with strong defense while Shula did just enough (sometimes just a few field goals) to win. Then they would get into the playoffs and get shut down by a quality opponent year after year. He lost the 1999 Conference Championship game 12-6. That was the score, not their record that year. In 1997 they lost to Green Bay 11-7. This was Mike Shula with one of the greatest defenses ever constructed. Jeff Davidson circa 2008 would have taken these guys to the Super Bowl.

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

You still did not answer my questions nor did anyone agreeing with your post.

I'm not saying Shula is gonna' be the greatest OC the NFL has ever seen. I have my doubts. But I do not doubt that Coach Rivera offered the job to who he thought would be the best OC for the Panthers.

So you can stop talking, "Shula this" and "Shula that". There's plenty of threads with those discussions. Whether or not you agree with the hire is not my point.

[redbuddha]

The only thing holding Mike Shula at Alabama is that he was able to get good recruiting classes. Something every coach at Alabama has been able to do based on history of winning since Bear Bryant.

However, I bet if you ask Mike Shula why he failed at Alabama he would say that he lost The Golden Calf of Bristol in a recruiting battle with the University of Florida. Having seen The Golden Calf of Bristol in Pro-style offenses in the pros, can you imagine how much success he would have had at Alabama with The Golden Calf of Bristol running a pro style offense?

Oh and he tried to Unname the Sylvester Croom Trophy at Bama, after he became a competing coach at Miss State.

Those are my Mike Shula memories.

[MaineManPanther]

Continuity certainley played a well sized role in Shula's promotion. But to think that was the sole and/ or only big factor is naive.

Rivera is a intelligent enough man to know continuity does compensate for ineptitude.

This is Rivera's last chance, and he is fully aware that a bad OC can be seriously detrimental to said chance, regardless of possessing the same play book. He clearly has a certain level of confidence in Shula's OC ability.

Wether or not it pays off remains to be seen, but the hiring is a bit more deeper then just continuity

[Navy_football]

So, just out of curiosity... who teaches a QB to make back shoulder throws? I'm not sure I've ever seen Cam try to make one. Do the Panthers need to bring in a QB coach that can teach that art to Cam? I've seen Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, RG3 and Luck make that throw this year, but I can't ever recall Cam doing it.

[FootballMaestro]

So, just out of curiosity... who teaches a QB to make back shoulder throws? I'm not sure I've ever seen Cam try to make one. Do the Panthers need to bring in a QB coach that can teach that art to Cam? I've seen Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, RG3 and Luck make that throw this year, but I can't ever recall Cam doing it.

I think that's more an Offensive Philosophy Direction, rather than a "Can Cam Make This Throw" issue.

[Navy_football]

I think that's more an Offensive Philosophy Direction, rather than a "Can Cam Make This Throw" issue.

I think it's a technique used by QBs to throw their receivers open in tight coverage. All of the elite QBs use it, but I don't see Cam doing it.

I don't question whether or not he can make the throw. But I'd imagine it's something he'd need to practice with his receivers a great deal to become proficient and to get everyone on the same page - kind of like timing routes.

[FootballMaestro]

I think it's a technique used by QBs to throw their receivers open in tight coverage. All of the elite QBs use it, but I don't see Cam doing it.

I don't question whether or not he can make the throw. But I'd imagine it's something he'd need to practice with his receivers a great deal to become proficient and to get everyone on the same page - kind of like timing routes.

Well, after so many of us criticized the OC move this weekend. The Ball's Now in Mike Shula's court.

And I have the feeling, that Cam, him and the receivers, are going to have a lot more freedom to do the things they want, liked (and what they felt worked), than when Chud was there.

I guess we all pray, Shula has learned a lot from his previous gigs, watching Cam, Chud and the Panthers the past few years.

If he remains the QB coach, I guess this means Cam will spend a lot of time with him as OC. However, how much individual time will he have to spend with Cam as QB coach?

We'll see?

[csx]

Isn't that obvious?

Shula is Rivera's best hope at keeping his job. Not because he is the best OC available, but because he does not have to completely overhaul the current offense.

Hiring an outsider offensive coordinator would mean the entire offensive staff would be gone and a completely new offensive system in place. A new playbook. New terminology for the players to learn. New chemistry to be developed between players and coaches. Often, this can take more than one season to start yielding results.

Rivera does not have more than one season. If the Panthers do not win this year, he is gone. He knows it, everyone knows it.

So put yourself in his shoes. Knowing you can only lose 7 games next season or your ass is fired, would you

1: Hire a completely new offensive staff and implement a new system knowing in all likelyhood it will take a good of time to develop into a good offense if ever at all. or...

2. Promote from within and hope the current offense can be good enough to get you 9 wins. No learning curve, fewer variables.

Lets be clear here. The Shula hire was not made because he was the best candidate. Shula was hired because it presented the best option for Rivera to possibly win 9 games next season. It was a last ditch short term job saving hire. Any considerations past 2013 are an afterthought.

Are you attempting to say, with a straight face, that with this logic you would prefer installing a new offense that would take multiple years to install and create chemistry? You would prefer to win even less games next year and that somehow that is what the fans and coaches and players and owner should want?

I think you have come to a conclusion and are just going to twist and turn your logic to say what you want to say...it really doesn't matter about actual logic anymore does it?.Just stop and think what you are actually trying to say here....it's pretty funny.

[Cyberjag]

Just curious...

When did it suddenly start requiring several years of study and a dissertation to change an offense? Up until this off-season, teams used to do it all the time. The Panthers did it with Henning's Coryell to Davidson's Erhardt-Perkins, and many other teams have also made similar changes without necessarily suffering too terribly. And if the new offense was just another variant of Coryelll, then all the players would really have to learn is maybe some new code words. In only six months, of course.

I get that the complexities of an offense change somewhat bolster the arguments for Shula. What I'm curious about is when they became so dang insurmountable for professionals. And also, are they insurmountable for other teams as well? In other words, will next year see a ton of the teams that have changed offenses suddenly struggle to score, or would that have only happened to the Panthers if they didn't retain Shula?