What would be your reaction if Chud does better than Rivera next season?

[FootballMaestro]

Let's say Chud wins 12 games and wins his division makes the playoffs, while Rivera only wins 8 games for 3rd place in the NFC South, what would be your reaction? Regret? Anger?

I would like to think that the Panthers talent on both sides of the ball (especially Cam, Luke, Kraken, and maybe Olsen, Smith and Double Trouble) would insure the Panthers a better record--even in a tougher division, vs the better coaching staff that Chud has assembled.

If not: Then I would have hoped that JR fired Rivera or Rivera would have fired Chud at the end of the season, so maybe the Panthers would have Norv Turner or Hue Jackson instead.

[panthers55]

If Cleveland wins 12 games next year I am going to go to church every day instead of just on Sundays. Hell is freezing over and the world is actually coming to an end.

[redbuddha]

It is so much easier to succeed in the AFC, if I was a head coaching candidate, I wouldn't even interview for an NFC job.

[Pimpdaddy]

He ain't...schizoid mufker...

[KendrickPanther]

IF threads yay.

[Davidson Deac II]

I would fix a club sandwich and a cold glass of Lemonade.

[FootballMaestro]

It is so much easier to succeed in the AFC, if I was a head coaching candidate, I wouldn't even interview for an NFC job.

LOL

[PiratePanther189]

This is a tl;dr post, but I don't really give a poo i just got pissed. I was going to let this go, but I just couldn't possbily allow a fuging Browns fan come on this board and try to attack ME when he's a BROWNS fan. So I took the time a to break down the argument of a homer of the absolute worst NFL team that I have seen throughout the course of my lifetime.

It said I quoted too many times, so I took of the quote tags and he's in the italics and I'm in the bold.

So let's break down his argument here.

I came on to read the different thoughts on chud since he was your O.C. and now our head coach. I seen this post and laughed and had to respond.

Good grammer, you've started out well thus far. But let's get to the meat of your embarrassing argument to stick up for the Cleveland Steamers

So when you say unstable line do you mean the one that sent 2 to the pro bowl 2 yeras ago, with center alex mack, and perenial probowler left tackle joe thomas? Plus schwartz that we drafted last year to sure up the R.T. spot. Btw I just looked up the best O-lines in the nfl and cleveland is 5th. We do need a gaurd too sure up the interior, but o line is not our problem.

WE also sent 2 players to from OUR offensive line to the pro bowl as recently as 2011. Would I ever use that as an argument? No. Why? Because football teams change over a period of 2 years much more than you think. Our offensive line is beyond terrible, so that isn't an argument. Joe Thomas is one of, if not the best in the game. But Joe Thomas doesn't mean good line just like Jordan Gross doesn't mean good line.

And I don't know where you were looking up "best offensive lines," but I'll show you Football Outsiders, a site that gives LEGITIMATE football stats. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol Cleveland ranks 20th in run blocking and 12th in pass protection. Not sure where you saw 5th, but putting those 2 together makes them 16th, just topping out the bottom half of the league. Not exactly stable, is it?

D line while not full of house hold names that is fine also.

Is it really? Ok, let's roll with that. Based on looking at your normal starting d-line of Sheard, Rubin, Phil Taylor, and Rucker...the stats themselves are by no means good (no double digit sacks on a 43 d-line isn't good, and is a cause for concern). Then, I turn to Football Outsiders again, just because their stats are trustable. Cleveland's pash rush ranks 18th and their run stopping ranks 25. That's not "fine." It's horrible. I didn't even start on defense, but that is bad and reflective of a 5 win team.

LB is a different story and i would give you that we need OLB, CB, and a passing down edge rusher.

I would even say that your LB core has potential. JMJ and Maivia are young players that could become good in time, similar to how we've seen James Anderson grow in Carolina. But if you don't want to give them that much credit, fine, they suck. And yes, your secondary sucks dick too.

I would take richardson over any RB on your roster in a heartbeat. The guy played with fractured ribs nearly all season missed all of training camp and still almost had 1000 yds. Has D.Williams lived up to the 40+ million contract yet?

All I said was that Richardson is unproven, and I am correct in that statement. According to Football Outsiders (http://www.footballo...om/stats/rb2012), out of 42 rushers ranked (the ones with over 100 attempts), Richardson ranked 37th, below DeAngelo. And the only reason that Williams hasn't "lived up" to that contract he only has had 1 season to "live up to", is because the coach you folks just hired called plays like he was blind for the first half of the season. So good luck with that.

I like what cleveland has for WR also. Gordon went through a stint in 2011 with the dropsies but turned that around this year. And Gordon who didnt even play football in 2011 looked very good all year. So with another year to gel and weeds getting away from the dreaded predictable Shurmer WCO, and having chud and turner I can see a big turn around this year for those guys.

Your WRs suck. I'm sorry but no, I'm not even going to allow you to argue it. Massaquoi and Cribbs have been given YEARS to develop to no avail. Little and Gordon have shown no signs of being legitimate targets in this league. Everything you wrote after your first sentence was pure speculation and you know what happens when you assume. ( I do, your team ends up like the Browns)

Lets look at your cap space while Claytons numbers are said to be rough he has you almost 12 million in the red.

Oh boy, this oughta be fun. Now you want to be the cap expert on a team you have no idea about.

not sure who you guys have for F.A. to sign, but cuts will be made. Steve Smith is set to make 6.25 million this year and turning 34 this spring do you keep him or Trade him while he still has value or cut him? (i would trade him).

Old skill players have no value. Whatever we'd get in return for the best WR this team has ever seen and still a top 10 player, wouldn't be anything near what he could offer by staying here. And 6.25 mil isn't even a lot of money for a superstar WR.

Or what about De. Williams? Is he going to live up to that 8.2million this year or get benched again for stewart?

Mistake of past management, but he either needs to restructure or be traded, not too hard to understand. Are you trying to insult me by saying that Williams didn't fit the offense Chud was trying to run at the begginning of the season? Because if you are I'd re-examine your argument because you folks are the ones stuck with him.

So i wouldnt be looking at Carolina making any big FA moves or signings.

Now the browns are set at 2nd best in cap space with over 48 million to spend

Doesn't matter, no one wants to go to Cleveland

and the only notable FA are cribbs and he may be back. He hasnt steped up in the wr position and may be too expensive to be soley a special team player after the new kickoff rules.

Hasn't stepped up? He's an overrated waste of a roster space. He has a job because of his namesake value, which at this point is just a name that people seem to remember from a kick return a few years ago.

While I hope they don't go over board on FA there are some names that I would like to see the browns snag.

As I said before, don't worry about them going overboard. See how no big name free agents have come to Cleveland in the past few years? Chud isn't going to change that. No one wants to play in Cleveland. You have nothing to offer.

So is it out of the question that the browns will have a better record than Carolina while playing in a tougher division than you? I can see it.

After tearing your argument apart, you sir, made no points that made me think that this could even be possible in the biggest Browns homer's dream. Cleveland ranks below Carolina in EVERY statistical category.

Carolina has a better Quarterback

Carolina has a more well rounded running game

Carolina has a better fullback

Carolina has better tight ends

Carolina has better wide receivers

Carolina has a better offensive line, when healthy

Carolina has a better defensive line (which, with CJ and Kraken could eventually become one of the best)

Carolina has better linebackers

Carolina has a better secondary

but, wait, you have us in one category:

Cleveland has a better kicker than Carolina

Good luck bud, but like I said before, YOU ARE STILL THE DAMN BROWNS!

[cbarrier90]

I came on to read the different thoughts on chud since he was your O.C. and now our head coach. I seen this post and laughed and had to respond.

So when you say unstable line do you mean the one that sent 2 to the pro bowl 2 yeras ago, with center alex mack, and perenial probowler left tackle joe thomas? Plus schwartz that we drafted last year to sure up the R.T. spot. Btw I just looked up the best O-lines in the nfl and cleveland is 5th. We do need a gaurd too sure up the interior, but o line is not our problem. D line while not full of house hold names that is fine also. LB is a different story and i would give you that we need OLB, CB, and a passing down edge rusher.

I would take richardson over any RB on your roster in a heartbeat. The guy played with fractured ribs nearly all season missed all of training camp and still almost had 1000 yds. Has D.Williams lived up to the 40+ million contract yet?

I like what cleveland has for WR also. Gordon went through a stint in 2011 with the dropsies but turned that around this year. And Gordon who didnt even play football in 2011 looked very good all year. So with another year to gel and weeds getting away from the dreaded predictable Shurmer WCO, and having chud and turner I can see a big turn around this year for those guys.

Lets look at your cap space while Claytons numbers are said to be rough he has you almost 12 million in the red. not sure who you guys have for F.A. to sign, but cuts will be made. Steve Smith is set to make 6.25 million this year and turning 34 this spring do you keep him or Trade him while he still has value or cut him? (i would trade him). Or what about De. Williams? Is he going to live up to that 8.2million this year or get benched again for stewart? So i wouldnt be looking at Carolina making any big FA moves or signings.

Now the browns are set at 2nd best in cap space with over 48 million to spend and the only notable FA are cribbs and he may be back. He hasnt steped up in the wr position and may be too expensive to be soley a special team player after the new kickoff rules. And Dawson will be back. They are not going to find anyone that is money like he is.While I hope they don't go over board on FA there are some names that I would like to see the browns snag.

So is it out of the question that the browns will have a better record than Carolina while playing in a tougher division than you? I can see it.

Your team somehow managed to make the Falcons overpaying for the 2nd best WR in the 2011 draft look like a steal. You gave up Julio Jones to select Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, and Greg Little.

God bless you.

[Kevin Greene]

Would not surprise me.

If Chud gets a vet QB like DA and pounds the rock with Richardson maybe they win 8 games.

We could easily win 7 games again next year.

[SZ James (banned)]

I will spam variations of the "At least we're not the Browns" meme for the entire year.

[Marguide]

I wouldn't be surprised.

What would be fun watching would be the endless threads on how Cleveland's roster is so much better than ours and that's why they are winning. Or that it was just in the weak AFC. Etc.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted Chud gone and do not believe he is the genius some claim he is. My statements are instead grounded in how weak I perceive our staff to be. In my opinion, we have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.

[rscott94]

I doubt he wins 12 games.. But with that staff I'm expecting big things from Chud. Honestly I did not think he would have done this well.

I was supportive of Rivera... But after the Shula hire I've lost faith in him. I hope it works out and if it doesn't I hope there are good candidates available next year

[rscott94]

I came on to read the different thoughts on chud since he was your O.C. and now our head coach. I seen this post and laughed and had to respond.

So when you say unstable line do you mean the one that sent 2 to the pro bowl 2 yeras ago, with center alex mack, and perenial probowler left tackle joe thomas? Plus schwartz that we drafted last year to sure up the R.T. spot. Btw I just looked up the best O-lines in the nfl and cleveland is 5th. We do need a gaurd too sure up the interior, but o line is not our problem. D line while not full of house hold names that is fine also. LB is a different story and i would give you that we need OLB, CB, and a passing down edge rusher.

I would take richardson over any RB on your roster in a heartbeat. The guy played with fractured ribs nearly all season missed all of training camp and still almost had 1000 yds. Has D.Williams lived up to the 40+ million contract yet?

I like what cleveland has for WR also. Gordon went through a stint in 2011 with the dropsies but turned that around this year. And Gordon who didnt even play football in 2011 looked very good all year. So with another year to gel and weeds getting away from the dreaded predictable Shurmer WCO, and having chud and turner I can see a big turn around this year for those guys.

Lets look at your cap space while Claytons numbers are said to be rough he has you almost 12 million in the red. not sure who you guys have for F.A. to sign, but cuts will be made. Steve Smith is set to make 6.25 million this year and turning 34 this spring do you keep him or Trade him while he still has value or cut him? (i would trade him). Or what about De. Williams? Is he going to live up to that 8.2million this year or get benched again for stewart? So i wouldnt be looking at Carolina making any big FA moves or signings.

Now the browns are set at 2nd best in cap space with over 48 million to spend and the only notable FA are cribbs and he may be back. He hasnt steped up in the wr position and may be too expensive to be soley a special team player after the new kickoff rules. And Dawson will be back. They are not going to find anyone that is money like he is.While I hope they don't go over board on FA there are some names that I would like to see the browns snag.

So is it out of the question that the browns will have a better record than Carolina while playing in a tougher division than you? I can see it.

Ok... First off I respect your defense, overall it's pretty good and like you've said it's missing just a couple of pieces. Your offensive line is very strong as well. For your recievers I like Gordon and Greg Little your TE's are good as well.

The big question now is who's your QB? Ryan Mallett? Weeden?. When you could've had Ryan Tannehill and Julio Jones.

I like how you're bragging about Richardson. If you watched ANY Carolina game you would see how misused DWill, JStew, and Tolbert were. It was absolutely pathetic to have all that talent in the backfield and barely use them. So if I were you I'd be begging/praying (whatever makes you happy) that Norv is calling the plays instead of Chud.

As for trading Smitty you're crazy... I wish you good luck this season AND GOOD DAY SIR!!!