OK, so if no heir to Smitty is in our draft plans, or in the draft at all,then FA is critical

[ThunderKatt]

because that kind of thing happens all the time.

and gettis? meh....

gettis lit it up his first year without a sta le quarterback. Look at his stats and compare to des Bryant the best receiver of that draft and you will see gettis was right there in stats with lafell.

[panthersphan]

Good thing is there are a lot of quality WR free agents this year...the bad thing is we have no cap space

[koolkatluke]

the one that gettleman will find who can be that #1 guy won't be obvious to us. it will be a wes welker type guy that no one sees how valuable he can be.

it has to be something we take seriously. i don't care how good you think this WR corps is, it's not good enough and it can and should be upgraded. if gettleman thinks that there's a WR worthy of a first round pick, then we get him. if there's one worth a 2nd rounder then we get him. if there's one he thinks he'll be able to pick up in FA or via trade, then we get him and it will be worth it.

people just get too attached to mediocre talent around here. i'll never understand that.

our WR is weak by modern NFL standards. i'm sure there's some that are worse, but being better than the worst still sucks. we need to have a top level WR corps to match our top level defense, top level RB corps, and top level QB. yes, OL needs addressed as well, but just because there's not a julio in the draft doesn't mean we should rule WR out.

I don't want you being Pissy and make dumb ass threads if he doesn't.

Again we had a top 10 offense with this same wr corp.

It wasn't our WR's that failed us this year (we were top 5 in least drops this year). It was our O-line and our Head up his ass OC.

[Marguide]

So in reality who knows what Chud would have done...

That was my whole point. We don't know and can't know because it didn't happen.

Look, I was thrilled when Chud left. I hated what he did to us the first part of the year. All we are disagreeing about is whether or not you could count how many fewer games we would have lost with a dangerous receiver added. There is just no way to know.

[top dawg]

The Ravens didn't start to get better until they made the changes to their O-line. You don't have to be Steve Wonder to see that they are able to make down field throws because their O-line is better. Not to mention Boldin isn't much faster then Lafell or Murphy and he is no where near as fast as Gettis.

Comparing Boldin to LaFell or Murphy is just wrong. Defenses don't fear Boldin or Murphy, and looking at history, why should they?

Without Torrey Smith and/or Anquan Boldin, Baltimore is just another good team built to succeed in the regular season and stall once they face superior and more complete teams in the postseason---O-line or not.

[koolkatluke]

Comparing Boldin to LaFell or Murphy is just wrong. Defenses don't fear Boldin or Murphy, and looking at history, why should they?

Without Torrey Smith and/or Anquan Boldin, Baltimore is just another good team built to succeed in the regular season and stall once they face superior and more complete teams in the postseason---O-line or not.

I was talking about in speed catagory. Actually I think Murphy is faster then Boldin and Lafell is about the same speed.

But my real point was (since you missed it). None of those down field throws would be possible if the O-line wasn't better after the change. You might be surprised what our offense would look like if the O-line could block.

[koolkatluke]

That was my whole point. We don't know and can't know because it didn't happen.

Look, I was thrilled when Chud left. I hated what he did to us the first part of the year. All we are disagreeing about is whether or not you could count how many fewer games we would have lost with a dangerous receiver added. There is just no way to know.

How do you know we don't have dangerous wr?

1st Chud wasn't using the weapons we have already.

2nd Our O-line sucked so Cam rarley had time to look down field.

3rd We are top 5 in Pass plays over 20+ yards the last 2 season. Our Wr should get some credit for that.

[rayzor]

Personally, I want to build up the defense with the first picks so we can compete highly in our division. We have one of the toughest divisions to compete in when you look at their offenses. We need a defense that makes them cringe when they see us on the schedule.

no, we need to be able to score more than them.

that is the key.

you have to be able to win shootouts, because regardless of how good you think your defense is, you're going to be involved in one. and you have to be ready to have them in the playoffs. no team in the games last week scored less than 28 points and there were only 2 who scored 28 and both of them lost. 49ers scored 45 points against the packers 31 points. the ravens had to score 38 to beat the broncos who had 35. point is...these games can get pretty high scoring and you have to count on your defense not being able to stop them.

i keep preaching this, but you CAN NOT trust your defense to stop a team from scoring. i don't care how good you think they are, you can't act like they can. you can't put them in a situation where they have to stop the other team. it puts too much pressure on them and the league makes it easy for offenses to come back from behind. the rules protect the deep pass. the QB has a cushion around them and the WRs can't be touched past 5 yards and have to be allowed to plant their feet before you hit them. good and smart offenses take advantage of that.

it's good to have a great defense, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you don't have an offense that can beat any defense through the air. none of those teams get into the playoffs without killer offenses and good receivers. none of them get there without being able to put a ton of points on the board. none of them have any hope of going the distance without a great offense.

[koolkatluke]

no, we need to be able to score more than them.

that is the key.

you have to be able to win shootouts, because regardless of how good you think your defense is, you're going to be involved in one. and you have to be ready to have them in the playoffs. no team in the games last week scored less than 28 points and there were only 2 who scored 28 and both of them lost. 49ers scored 45 points against the packers 31 points. the ravens had to score 38 to beat the broncos who had 35. point is...these games can get pretty high scoring and you have to count on your defense not being able to stop them.

i keep preaching this, but you CAN NOT trust your defense to stop a team from scoring. i don't care how good you think they are, you can't act like they can. you can't put them in a situation where they have to stop the other team. it puts too much pressure on them and the league makes it easy for offenses to come back from behind. the rules protect the deep pass. the QB has a cushion around them and the WRs can't be touched past 5 yards and have to be allowed to plant their feet before you hit them. good and smart offenses take advantage of that.

it's good to have a great defense, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you don't have an offense that can beat any defense through the air. none of those teams get into the playoffs without killer offenses and good receivers. none of them get there without being able to put a ton of points on the board. none of them have any hope of going the distance without a great offense.

Didn't we beat the Saints in 2 shootout games this year?

And we were a top 10 offense (top 5 in scoring) when Chud didn't have his head up his ass right?

Did we have different WR then? Or was it just our O-line and OC was better?

[rayzor]

I don't want you being Pissy and make dumb ass threads if he doesn't.

Again we had a top 10 offense with this same wr corp.

It wasn't our WR's that failed us this year (we were top 5 in least drops this year). It was our O-line and our Head up his ass OC.

again, no one is denying that we weren't good on offense. it's a matter of wanting to be better and realizing that we don't have great talent on this WR corps. if smitty is out, we're hurting.

some of us aren't satisfied with this team. i don't care how good we were last year, we don't settle. we don't just accept the status quo. we don't try to persuade ourselves that our WRs are "good enough" as is. we try and bring them up to the level of other WR corps at the top of the food chain and we don't fool ourselves into believing that apart from smitty our guys can hang with any at the top.

[ThunderKatt]

no, we need to be able to score more than them.

that is the key.

you have to be able to win shootouts, because regardless of how good you think your defense is, you're going to be involved in one. and you have to be ready to have them in the playoffs. no team in the games last week scored less than 28 points and there were only 2 who scored 28 and both of them lost. 49ers scored 45 points against the packers 31 points. the ravens had to score 38 to beat the broncos who had 35. point is...these games can get pretty high scoring and you have to count on your defense not being able to stop them.

i keep preaching this, but you CAN NOT trust your defense to stop a team from scoring. i don't care how good you think they are, you can't act like they can. you can't put them in a situation where they have to stop the other team. it puts too much pressure on them and the league makes it easy for offenses to come back from behind. the rules protect the deep pass. the QB has a cushion around them and the WRs can't be touched past 5 yards and have to be allowed to plant their feet before you hit them. good and smart offenses take advantage of that.

it's good to have a great defense, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you don't have an offense that can beat any defense through the air. none of those teams get into the playoffs without killer offenses and good receivers. none of them get there without being able to put a ton of points on the board. none of them have any hope of going the distance without a great offense.

Thats what pisses me off, I don't want shootouts, I want to stop them. I want to hold them to 1 fieldgoal, damn the shootouts.

[rayzor]

so we're just fine the way we are. we're happy being having an 'ok' WR corps that doesn't cost us games. we're fine with the idea of not improving there and ignoring the fact that our only true stud WR is in his 30's right now, has gone an incredibly long time without missing significant time due to injury or stupidity and we are on borrowed time with him.

meh.....i'm done. you've got this thought in your head that says everything is just fine and there's no reason to try and improve there. so be it.

[top dawg]

I was talking about in speed catagory. Actually I think Murphy is faster then Boldin and Lafell is about the same speed.

But my real point was (since you missed it). None of those down field throws would be possible if the O-line wasn't better after the change. You might be surprised what our offense would look like if the O-line could block.

I agree with you, but, like I said, we have to address all the issues. That's my real point. Whether we do it by draft or FA is the question. Everything has to be evaluated, weighed and balanced, planned, and then executed. There is no sure-fire way to say which way is right. You have to adapt and play chess with each specific situation to try and achieve the best outcome.

[ThunderKatt]

We need more turnovers that change games and field position. We. Need to stay in their backfield. If we have a defense that can atop shootouts our offensive weapons are there to win games.