Don't Cut DW!

[ThunderKatt]

Bottom line....

There is a reason why Rivera has essentially demoted Williams in 2011 (in snaps) and 2012 (officially)

There is a reason why every outsider who looks at our situation believes Williams likely played his last game here at NO (Everyone from the Observer, yahoo, ESPN)

Just like Rivera demoted lafell in favor of legs and then by the end of the season lafell was starting. So yeah, I can see how Rivera doesn't make bonehead decisions.

[panthers55]

No. Sorry again.

DWill's signing bonus was spread over 5 years, and we have to take $3.2 million of that each year as long as he's on the roster. Once he's off the roster, it accelerates, as I suspect you know. We are on the hook for 3 more years at $3.2 a year. That's $9.6 million.

When you cut a player after June 1st, you spread the hit over 2 years. The first year, you only have to take what was already on your books for that league year. The balance hits in year 2.

Here's the math, using Spotrac as the reference for contract figures:

Scheduled cap hit for 2013 = $8.2 million dollars

Scheduled non-guaranteed salary = $4.750 million (we don't have to pay any of this)

Scheduled work out bonus = $250,000 (again, not guaranteed)

Scheduled allocated signing bonus charge = $3.2 million (no cash, but we are on the hook for this)

$8.2 million - $3.2 million = savings of $5 million

You can do the same exercise for 2014, but the answer is we save $2.8 million.

Again you are saving nothing since you spend money and get nothing in return. At least if you pay him you have him to use. And frankly what makes you think that Stewart could run 250 times with no issues. And that is what it would take if you gave Stewart most of Williams carries.

[CRA]

Assuming that Stewart will hold up for 16 games may be a stretch. He has never carried the ball more than 221 times and even with that ended up on IR 2 of the past three years. And your logic that carries will be picked up by others may not be true. Against Seattle for example Stewart carried for 4 carries for 16 yards and Williams ran it 6 times for 6 yards. Even Cam only has 42 yards on 7 carries. Tolbert had 1 carry for 3 yards. How about against Tampa twice?? Stewart didn't play and Tolbert and Williams combined for 7 carries for 1 yard. Newton had 5 carries for 4 yards. The second time, Stewart had 43 yards on 15 carries, Williams had 18 yards on 7 carries. Even Newton had only 40 yards on 11 carries.

Again Stewart showed very little in 2012. Even if you give him all of Williams carries against Seattle he gets 62 yards, and again Tampa he gets 61 yards on 22 carries. He did better against NO and Washington on a yard per carry average but otherwise as pretty bad.

As a team we didn't do much against good run defenses and Stewart didn't really help that much.

And if he doesn't hold up.....we have Cam, Tolbert, and cheap RB to get us through those couple games he misses......and that trio would be more fearsome than most attacks. We can get through small stretches with that and be fine.

OL play was so bad this year....it probably is unfair to nitpick any RB too heavily. I don't think any RB was as bad as they looked. That is where we need to focus....not on how good our backup to whoever are technical #1 RB is.

Think with the new GM he will sort the RB situation out. maybe not how I see it but he will find a way to change the look of it. I am more worried now about our OL and think I will spend my time not debating this old RB debate any longer.

[CRA]

Just like Rivera demoted lafell in favor of legs and then by the end of the season lafell was starting. So yeah, I can see how Rivera doesn't make bonehead decisions.

Legatron had a clear role....line up players in a new scheme with no offseason. That is why he was on the field....

It wasn't boneheaded...LaFell didn't show to be good enough for Chud not to have someone on the field making sure the real talent knew what to do.

[ThunderKatt]

Legatron had a clear role....line up players in a new scheme with no offseason. That is why he was on the field....

It wasn't boneheaded...LaFell didn't show to be good enough for Chud not to have someone on the field making sure the real talent knew what to do.

you cab buy that all you want but lefell put up similar numbers as des his rookie year with clausen. So you can believe that hoopla Rivera spouts as his excuse for bringing in legs. He just fired an assistant coach to cover his ass, Rivera always has an excuse for why he does things instead of manning up. Phuck Ron.

He should of just made legs a positions coach cuz lafell still out up better numbers so I'm not buying it that legs was a positions guru that couodnt get separate with his elite speed.

[Marguide]

Again you are saving nothing since you spend money and get nothing in return. At least if you pay him you have him to use. And frankly what makes you think that Stewart could run 250 times with no issues. And that is what it would take if you gave Stewart most of Williams carries.

Don't get me wrong, I wish we could find a way to keep DWill, as I don't trust only having Stew and Tolbert. That formula to me says Cam will probably continue to be our leading rusher, unless someone like the guy called up from the practice squad (#36, can't remember his name) really comes on to supplement Stew.

But I'm trying to look at it objectively and from the standpoint of a team that has more needs than it can fill in 1 draft, and in a year in which cap dollars are going to be at a premium. Given the choice between going with Stew, Tolbert and maybe #36 along with a nice safety or RG in FA, or no safety/RG, but we have DWill added to the mix, I think I would take the former.

And as to savings, yeah, you've already spent the money to buy the car, but you are going to have to spend a lot more if you want to keep it running, and you have a newer car sitting in the garage. Oh, and the roof needs fixing by the way.

[beastson52]

Okay...look at that same window minus the game against the worst D in the NFL history. 3.4 yards per carry....that ain't killin it.

He isn't the 2008 Williams. Some think bc we don't run a power run game that it is the only reason we don't see that guy....the 2008 guy would have hit holes quicker and not be brought down with relative ease

He might not be the same guy from 2008 but he's still relatively fresh compared to RB's his age. Seems stwewart has taken more wear and tear than Williams just because he's the bruiser.

I for one want to keep Double Trouble intact at least for one more year. Maybe there true potential shines in 2013 ( that's if chud doesn't go full retard mode again)

[CRA]

you cab buy that all you want but lefell put up similar numbers as des his rookie year with clausen. So you can believe that hoopla Rivera spouts as his excuse for bringing in legs. He just fired an assistant coach to cover his ass, Rivera always has an excuse for why he does things instead of manning up. Phuck Ron.

Even 89 admitted Legatron had to help them early on....with no offseason and a rookie QB...someone had to be in the huddle that had the new offense down.

Rivera IMO has manned up and admitted he is a green HC learning. We need to see who he brings in...bc it very well could be like the secondary coach. Meeks was a body simply until someone he wanted was available. He had ties to players so he made a good bandaid. That could easily be said about the WR coach. His ideal guys might not of been available....a good bandaid could be someone 89 at least is familiar with until he gets who he wants

[panthers55]

And if he doesn't hold up.....we have Cam, Tolbert, and cheap RB to get us through those couple games he misses......and that trio would be more fearsome than most attacks. We can get through small stretches with that and be fine.

OL play was so bad this year....it probably is unfair to nitpick any RB too heavily. I don't think any RB was as bad as they looked. That is where we need to focus....not on how good our backup to whoever are technical #1 RB is.

Think with the new GM he will sort the RB situation out. maybe not how I see it but he will find a way to change the look of it. I am more worried now about our OL and think I will spend my time not debating this old RB debate any longer.

Counting Newton as a running back and assuming he could carry the ball and take some of Williams carries is just ridiculous. Tolbert never ran the ball more than 11 times in a game for us and most were in the red zone. So to assume that Stewart could pick up the load ignores the fact he has never really handled the load. Even when Williams was on IR in 2010, he had only 2 games with more than 20 carries. And that was with Fox running all day with no quarterback. In fact those 2 games were the only 2 games of 20 or more carries all year. And that year we had a good OL.

In fact he has only had 5 games of more than 20 carries in his 5 year career. Three in 2009 and 2 in 2010. None in 2008, 2011 and 2012.

[CRA]

He might not be the same guy from 2008 but he's still relatively fresh compared to RB's his age. Seems stwewart has taken more wear and tear than Williams just because he's the bruiser.

I for one want to keep Double Trouble intact at least for one more year. Maybe there true potential shines in 2013 ( that's if chud doesn't go full retard mode again)

Well agree Stewart's style and history don't point to a long career.....I also don't think Williams has this low mileage people like to tout. if we drafted a RB tomorrow, he would come into the NFL with likely half the college workload on his body Williams had.

But again, how I feel about Williams largely depends on what is going on around him. That isn't how everyone views it

[panthers55]

Don't get me wrong, I wish we could find a way to keep DWill, as I don't trust only having Stew and Tolbert. That formula to me says Cam will probably continue to be our leading rusher, unless someone like the guy called up from the practice squad (#36, can't remember his name) really comes on to supplement Stew.

But I'm trying to look at it objectively and from the standpoint of a team that has more needs than it can fill in 1 draft, and in a year in which cap dollars are going to be at a premium. Given the choice between going with Stew, Tolbert and maybe #36 along with a nice safety or RG in FA, or no safety/RG, but we have DWill added to the mix, I think I would take the former.

And as to savings, yeah, you've already spent the money to buy the car, but you are going to have to spend a lot more if you want to keep it running, and you have a newer car sitting in the garage. Oh, and the roof needs fixing by the way.

The problem is that Rivera has to win in 2013 or he is gone. Why count on Stewart who is unreliable and can't handle the load, Tolbert who is really a short yardage guy, and risk hurting Cam who has shown he is human and can be hurt when you really can't afford not having a running game. Do we want to just use any guy or make sure we have a dynamic running game to help Newton.

One thing to note is that Tolbert is due a 1.5 million option bonus this Spring with the cap being tight we might cut him.

[CRA]

Counting Newton as a running back and assuming he could carry the ball and take some of Williams carries is just ridiculous. Tolbert never ran the ball more than 11 times in a game for us and most were in the red zone. So to assume that Stewart could pick up the load ignores the fact he has never really handled the load. Even when Williams was on IR in 2010, he had only 2 games with more than 20 carries. And that was with Fox running all day with no quarterback. In fact those 2 games were the only 2 games of 20 or more carries all year. And that year we had a good OL.

In fact he has only had 5 games of more than 20 yards inn his 5 year career. Three in 2009 and 2 in 2010. None in 2008, 2011 and 2012.

I am counting him as part of the rushing attack.

Considering he has accounted for 32% of our rushing yardage and 46% of our rushing TDs under Rivera.....yeah, he is a factor. yes, it should be assumed Newton will account for about 25% of our rush attempts next year (which would be down for him).

Mike Tolbert rushed the ball 303 times his two years prior to coming here. Which was more than Williams and only 17 less than Stewart in the same window. So yes, Tolbert has proven he can carry a much larger workload than he had last year in Carolina.

And again, no one would carry the load.....they all are parts of the rush attack. Adrian Peterson carries the load.....On a Cam, Tolbert, Stewart, Cheap RB team that Chud calls....no one has to be able to carry the load. There aren't that many carries to go around...I think those runners can handle 8 carries a game, per person.....and all hold up pretty well. If one goes down....they can all take 1-2 more carries for a week.

[ThunderKatt]

I am counting him as part of the rushing attack.

Considering he has accounted for 32% of our rushing yardage and 46% of our rushing TDs under Rivera.....yeah, he is a factor. yes, it should be assumed Newton will account for about 25% of our rush attempts next year (which would be down for him).

Mike Tolbert rushed the ball 303 times his two years prior to coming here. Which was more than Williams and only 17 less than Stewart in the same window. So yes, Tolbert has proven he can carry a much larger workload than he had last year in Carolina.

And again, no one would carry the load.....they all are parts of the rush attack. Adrian Peterson carries the load.....On a Cam, Tolbert, Stewart, Cheap RB team that Chud calls....no one has to be able to carry the load. There aren't that many carries to go around...I think those runners can handle 8 carries a game, per person.....and all hold up pretty well. If one goes down....they can all take 1-2 more carries for a week.

we are not Denver or the patriots so for you to think 8.carries for a running back is going to win us games proves that you are nuts.

Amos before I laugh myself to sleep from this, you are willing to lay Stewart his contract for 8 carries, lol? What's that's $100k per carry?

[iamhubby1]

Williams is a homerun hitter. He may not be here next year, but it is not easy to just replace a homerun hitter.

Stewy is fine, nothing special, but better than average.When healthy. Tolbert is helpful. That is just not a combo I would be happy with.

Find the money to keep DWill and we have the homerun threat people fear. Also, he has improved greatly with the screen play. That is a big part of our game. Stewy is fine and all, but DWill is explosive.

Lastly. DWill still has the speed to be a threat. Folks need to quit with the bashing. He is worth having as a feature back. Too bad we probably cannot afford him.