Don't Cut DW!

[nosuchthingasapanther]

for what it's worth, profootballfocus's overall rushing grades for williams and stewart's 2012 season...

stewart -0.8

williams -3.1

for 2011...

williams 4.1

stewart 12.3

[CRA]

Stewart was just Hurney stupidity, two #1s at the RB position in 3 years.

He severley over valued the RB position in the draft and later when their contracts came up, not to mention the Tolbert signing. Stewart, Tolbert and Williams are over payed.

Stewart was horrible this year at 3.6 YPC. Dwill at least performed well.

Hopefully Gettlemen can get this roster and cap money under control in a year or two.

There's lots of Hurney ignorance that has to be dealt with on the Panther's roster.

It's gonna be ugly.

Stewart played hurt all year

Williams' ypc through 15 games was worse than 3.6. It was 3.4 heading into the last game of the season.

Thr last game of the season has pretty much made people somehow forget so much....

[panthers55]

I understand the sentiment to get rid of one or the other back but saying we need to cut either this year just makes no sense financially. If we cut or trade Williams this year we pay 10 million in dead cap space. If we make it a June 1st cut it is still 5 million this year and 5 million in 2014. All in dead cap space. In other words we pay 10 million and we still have to replace him with someone else and pay them. 10 million bucks thrown down the drain. Anyone who thinks that makes sense doesn't have a clue.

If we cut or trade Stewart we would have to pay over 16 million in dead cap space. Not even a possibility.

Keeping both of them for another year will cost 2,800,000 for Stewart and 8,200,000 for Williams or 10 million total for both which was the same or less than last year.

So cutting one or the other will result in tremendous cap hits in dead cap space where as keeping them will be no more than what we save by cutting Williams alone.

Now I know that some think that cutting Williams in 2013 will be good in the long run but honestly that wouldn't be true either. The way the contracts are structured you wouldn't cut Williams until 2014 and you wouldn't restructure much given you will still have to pay more in dead cap space down the road. Stewart is scheduled to make a 9 million dollar option in 2014 but I think it is guaranteed so in 2014 he would cost 1 million, plus 4.5 million in guaranteed bonuses for a 5.5 million hit. You could normally cut Stewart to avoid the option bonus but if it is guaranteed and I think it is, it would escalate and you would owe a ton.

Honestly the best option is keeping both of them in 2013, cut Williams in 2014 and you are stuck with Stewart until 2016 realistically.

[CRA]

for what it's worth, profootballfocus's overall rushing grades for williams and stewart's 2012 season...

stewart -0.8

williams -3.1

for 2011...

williams 4.1

stewart 12.3

That would support why Rivera wants him on the field over Williams.....

Panther fans think the guy PFF graded in 2008 is still running. PFF also doesn't let the last game of the season hide how ineffective Williams was so often

[Kevin Greene]

Stewart played hurt all year

Stopped reading, you're not paying attention to what Stewart's future holds.

Rodeo has already krapped all over your stuff.

end story

[panthers55]

Bottom line....

There is a reason why Rivera has essentially demoted Williams in 2011 (in snaps) and 2012 (officially)

There is a reason why every outsider who looks at our situation believes Williams likely played his last game here at NO (Everyone from the Observer, yahoo, ESPN)

You didn't actually use Yahoo, the Observer and ESPN to prove a point, did you??

Why not throw in Bleacher report also...................

By the way why use Rivera as the rationale for why Stewart is better?? After all our running game was awful for most of the time Stewart was in there. It really didn't click until we ran a more traditional one and Williams got the majority of carries.

[CRA]

I understand the sentiment to get rid of one or the other back but saying we need to cut either this year just makes no sense financially. If we cut or trade Williams this year we pay 10 million in dead cap space. If we make it a June 1st cut it is still 5 million this year and 5 million in 2014. All in dead cap space. In other words we pay 10 million and we still have to replace him with someone else and pay them. 10 million bucks thrown down the drain. Anyone who thinks that makes sense doesn't have a clue.

If we cut or trade Stewart we would have to pay over 16 million in dead cap space. Not even a possibility.

Keeping both of them for another year will cost 2,800,000 for Stewart and 8,200,000 for Williams or 10 million total for both which was the same or less than last year.

So cutting one or the other will result in tremendous cap hits in dead cap space where as keeping them will be no more than what we save by cutting Williams alone.

Now I know that some think that cutting Williams in 2013 will be good in the long run but honestly that wouldn't be true either. The way the contracts are structured you wouldn't cut Williams until 2014 and you wouldn't restructure much given you will still have to pay more in dead cap space down the road. Stewart is scheduled to make a 9 million dollar option in 2014 but I think it is guaranteed so in 2014 he would cost 1 million, plus 4.5 million in guaranteed bonuses for a 5.5 million hit. You could normally cut Stewart to avoid the option bonus but if it is guaranteed and I think it is, it would escalate and you would owe a ton.

Honestly the best option is keeping both of them in 2013, cut Williams in 2014 and you are stuck with Stewart until 2016 realistically.

Why do we have to replace him with someone else?

If you have Cam, Stewart and Tolbert.....there still aren't enough touches to go around.

That means every team in the NFL needs to bring in a RB.

If it doesn't make sense to cut him.....we won't. We will see what a non Hurney GM does. I can handle Williams for one more year.....but after that it would be crazy. Talk of keeping Williams and cutting Stewart (like so many suggests), has nothing to back it

[panthers55]

So if we trade Stewart I know we have to pay the signing bonus that is remaining but do we have to pay the 9 million in option money as well or would the new team have to pay that or sign a new contract and avoid it.....

[CRA]

You didn't actually use Yahoo, the Observer and ESPN to prove a point, did you??

Why not throw in Bleacher report also...................

By the way why use Rivera as the rationale for why Stewart is better?? After all our running game was awful for most of the time Stewart was in there. It really didn't click until we ran a more traditional one and Williams got the majority of carries.

Are you actually suggesting all media outlets are now the same as Bleacher Report? If I can't use those then I can't use any.

it clicked in 2011 when Stewart saw the most reps.

2012 clicked when Cam was put in more realistic setting....Williams was in impressive as a rusher in 2012 when not playing the worst D on NFL history (too many games are being lumped in and masked by the NO game)

[rodeo]

Stewart played hurt all year

Stewart has played hurt since he was drafted and will play (or not play) hurt until he retires, at the detriment of whoever is paying his salary.

[panthers55]

Why do we have to replace him with someone else?

If you have Cam, Stewart and Tolbert.....there still aren't enough touches to go around.

That means every team in the NFL needs to bring in a RB.

If it doesn't make sense to cut him.....we won't. We will see what a non Hurney GM does. I can handle Williams for one more year.....but after that it would be crazy. Talk of keeping Williams and cutting Stewart (like so many suggests), has nothing to back it

Tell me again how many games Stewart played in 2012. So you think that a running quarterback and Tolbert can carry the load?? Seriously???? Stewart didn't run for more than 51 yards in a game all season. Seriously????

Actually if we could avoid the 9 million option bonus then trading Stewart would cost less than Williams. I think that we would still be on the hook for the 9 million option though so it really would make no sense to trade him then unless we could avoid that.

[panthers55]

Are you actually suggesting all media outlets are now the same as Bleacher Report? If I can't use those then I can't use any.

it clicked in 2011 when Stewart saw the most reps.

2012 clicked when Cam was put in more realistic setting....Williams was in impressive as a rusher in 2012 when not playing the worst D on NFL history (too many games are being lumped in and masked by the NO game)

I am just suggesting that ESPN usually has little clue, the Observer is a joke and Yahoo uses contributors much like Bleacher Report. Anyone saying Williams is gone when we didn't have a GM and no report to that effect is simply speculating with few facts.

And please stop the whole if he didn't play again this team or that he wouldn't have done well. That kind of selective reporting of stats adding or cutting some and not others is a common tactic for clueless posters. I think you are smarter than that. Everything counts good or bad.

[CRA]

Tell me again how many games Stewart played in 2012. So you think that a running quarterback and Tolbert can carry the load?? Seriously????

Actually if we could avoid the 9 million option bonus then trading Stewart would cost less than Williams. I think that we would still be on the hook for the 9 million option though so it really would make no sense to trade him then unless we could avoid that.

Cam + Tolbert + Stewart in Chud's O? They absolutely can carry the load in this offense...in this offense there aren't enough carries for those 3 if they earn their money.

No point looking at if we can trade a RB....we can't trade one of ours in today's NFL. If a team needs a RB, they will just draft a young and cheap one.

[CRA]

I am just suggesting that ESPN usually has little clue, the Observer is a joke and Yahoo uses contributors much like Bleacher Report. Anyone saying Williams is gone when we didn't have a GM and no report to that effect is simply speculating with few facts.

And please stop the whole if he didn't play again this team or that he wouldn't have done well. That kind of selective reporting of stats adding or cutting some and not others is a common tactic for clueless posters. I think you are smarter than that. Everything counts good or bad.

What you are suggesting, is I can't use any local or national media. yahoo specifically, I clearly wasn't referring to the new fan network they offer but there actual sports department.

Williams averaged 3.4 yards per carry through 15 games. That isn't selective.

Fact is an absurd final game blurs it......someone posted PFF's take. They don't let that game mask how unproductive he was for us overall.

But Williams isn't as bad as that 3.4 suggests.....running heavily on the year in a offense pitted against what he does and a bad OL are the main factors. again, as I have always said, Williams could of been a 1500 yard RB in the right offense. we don't run it nor give him the opportunities. It isn't about Williams it is about Carolina.

We don't need to two highly paid RBs here....doesn't matter what Williams could do under certain conditions. Conditions are what they are, and they are what matter most