darin gantt "Panthers keep finding scapegoats, bigger problem remains"

[CatMan72]

I agree with the overall theme of the article, but it's unfair to assume Rivera is looking for scapegoats to save his own hide.

In fact, when asked about whether or not he thought he would be fired he said he wasn't worried about himself, he was worried about his staff.

He's a first-time coach in his 3rd year and he's making adjustments to his staff... maybe he came to the conclusion that these guys weren't particularly good coaches?

His firing of Brian Murphy was clearly the right move given the improvement of our special teams.

Is it me, or does it sound like Darin has an axe to grind?

[Proudiddy]

The first sentence says it all. You think Rivera and the coordinators are dysfunctional and I don't. I think they are learning and figuring things out. I expect them to grow from this year and be better next. You obviously feel they are broken and won't improve.

You also seem to think you have some knowledge about the inner workings of the organization or how everyone did their job. Where did you get that from? Have you ever even talked to any of the positional coaches and any of the organizational people at all. So all your understanding about positional responses and who did a good or job job is speculation at best.

Rivera admitted there were offensive issues. That has nothing to do with why the positional guys were fired. Otherwise it would have been Chud.

No one said that the wide receivers or runningbacks were the main problems but they are areas where the coach wants better performance positionally. And he is in the best position to judge that. Frankly I would think people would be happy he is trying to right the ship instead of taking pot shots.

I just reject the idea of sacrificial lambs. It didn't apply to Hurney and it doesn't apply now.

I discussed the running backs and WRs because you asked me about them specifically. So, I answered you.

And as I said, and you just reiterated, Rivera admitted there were offensive problems and specifically implicated Chud as the culprit. He didn't trash him, he just said that he was trying to stay ahead of the curve and it backfired on them. Chud was not fired. So again, he points out Chud was having issues, but Chud is safe. Then we fire multiple positional coaches who may or may not have been a problem?

How can you argue that Rivera and Chud were NOT dysfunctional based off of how the season started?

Do you have connections within the coaching staff? Otherwise, you are also inferring what you want to about the situation based off of your own perspective.

I feel my position is firmly supported by the evidence we have in forms of statements from the players and coaches throughout the season. DeAngelo and Stew both arguably had one of their worst, if not THE worst season, they have ever had performance wise. They didn't fall off the age cliff... DeAngelo showed what he could do in the home stretch. That isn't explained away by positional coaching. It's indicative of problems with the philosophy to start the season. DeAngelo supported this idea with numerous statements throughout.

Additionally, we have the quote from CJ when Hurney was fired that said "I didn't know GMs coached." But, we win 3 or 4 games at the end of the year and everything is all gravy again.

We also have the few statements from Cam including one, IIRC, where he said, "I don't call the plays."

Then we have Rivera himself saying things such as, "We wanted to make them systematically beat us." He also implied that he had no say in how DBs were lining up. Those type of things.

So that doesn't suggest dysfunction? LOL. I don't know what does.

I didn't just go on some emotional tangent and delve deep into some Rivera hate fest. I was driving the Rivera fanwagon when we hired him. Go look up my posts from early on in his tenure. I believed in him. But, the things he has said and the things he has done have given me reason not to. I didn't just assume all of this and decide he wasn't the guy, there is proof in the things people from within the organization have said. So, you can keep discounting my for being an "outsider," but no matter what one may think, WE ARE ALL OUTSIDERS on this board.

So, unless you have evidence supporting your assumptions of what's going on in Rivera's brain, then I'll ride it out with the evidence that I have heard and saw to support my opinion.

[Mr. Scot]

I agree with the overall theme of the article, but it's unfair to assume Rivera is looking for scapegoats to save his own hide.

In fact, when asked about whether or not he thought he would be fired he said he wasn't worried about himself, he was worried about his staff.

He's a first-time coach in his 3rd year and he's making adjustments to his staff... maybe he came to the conclusion that these guys weren't particularly good coaches?

His firing of Brian Murphy was clearly the right move given the improvement of our special teams.

Is it me, or does it sound like Darin has an axe to grind?

I go back to Steve Wilks.

Wilks was the guy Rivera really wanted for his DC when he first got here, but as I recall, the Chargers wouldn't give permission or something. Bottom line, we couldn't get him. Rivera kept Ron Meeks, but it wasn't who he really wanted.

A year later, Wilks' contract is up. Ron Meeks is let go and Rivera brings in the guy he really wanted to begin with.

There are guys with prior Rivera connections at all three coaching spots who are part of staffs currently in flux due to their head coach being fired. Won't surprise me if one or all of them wind up here. In the case of the receivers, you could also just see in-house assistant Ricky Proehl promoted (pretty sure fans would love that if it happened).

So like I said in another thread, before I make a judgment on the firing of these coaches, I wanna see who their replacements wind up being. If it turns out we get better guys, then I'm fine with that.

[panthers55]

I discussed the running backs and WRs because you asked me about them specifically. So, I answered you.

And as I said, and you just reiterated, Rivera admitted there were offensive problems and specifically implicated Chud as the culprit. He didn't trash him, he just said that he was trying to stay ahead of the curve and it backfired on them. Chud was not fired. So again, he points out Chud was having issues, but Chud is safe. Then we fire multiple positional coaches who may or may not have been a problem?

How can you argue that Rivera and Chud were NOT dysfunctional based off of how the season started?

Do you have connections within the coaching staff? Otherwise, you are also inferring what you want to about the situation based off of your own perspective.

I feel my position is firmly supported by the evidence we have in forms of statements from the players and coaches throughout the season. DeAngelo and Stew both arguably had one of their worst, if not THE worst season, they have ever had performance wise. They didn't fall off the age cliff... DeAngelo showed what he could do in the home stretch. That isn't explained away by positional coaching. It's indicative of problems with the philosophy to start the season. DeAngelo supported this idea with numerous statements throughout.

Additionally, we have the quote from CJ when Hurney was fired that said "I didn't know GMs coached." But, we win 3 or 4 games at the end of the year and everything is all gravy again.

We also have the few statements from Cam including one, IIRC, where he said, "I don't call the plays."

Then we have Rivera himself saying things such as, "We wanted to make them systematically beat us." He also implied that he had no say in how DBs were lining up. Those type of things.

So that doesn't suggest dysfunction? LOL. I don't know what does.

I didn't just go on some emotional tangent and delve deep into some Rivera hate fest. I was driving the Rivera fanwagon when we hired him. Go look up my posts from early on in his tenure. I believed in him. But, the things he has said and the things he has done have given me reason not to. I didn't just assume all of this and decide he wasn't the guy, there is proof in the things people from within the organization have said. So, you can keep discounting my for being an "outsider," but no matter what one may think, WE ARE ALL OUTSIDERS on this board.

So, unless you have evidence supporting your assumptions of what's going on in Rivera's brain, then I'll ride it out with the evidence that I have heard and saw to support my opinion.

You obviously have an axe to grind as well. You wanted Rivera gone and now blame him for everything happening. Fine.

But going back and forth seems useless. You and I obviously are working on different assumptions about the team and coaches. Nothing I say will change your mind so I won't waste my time.

[MadHatter]

I think one aspect that no one is mentioning about these firings is....How did the overall coaching staff mesh this year? Were there personality issues? Were there philosophical differences in styles? etc

Many of these changes could be attributed to improving that overall personality and functionality of the staff.

just a thought

[CRA]

How can you argue that Rivera and Chud were NOT dysfunctional based off of how the season started?

Do you have connections within the coaching staff? Otherwise, you are also inferring what you want to about the situation based off of your own perspective.

I feel my position is firmly supported by the evidence we have in forms of statements from the players and coaches throughout the season. DeAngelo and Stew both arguably had one of their worst, if not THE worst season, they have ever had performance wise. They didn't fall off the age cliff... DeAngelo showed what he could do in the home stretch. That isn't explained away by positional coaching. It's indicative of problems with the philosophy to start the season. DeAngelo supported this idea with numerous statements throughout.

Additionally, we have the quote from CJ when Hurney was fired that said "I didn't know GMs coached." But, we win 3 or 4 games at the end of the year and everything is all gravy again.

We also have the few statements from Cam including one, IIRC, where he said, "I don't call the plays."

Then we have Rivera himself saying things such as, "We wanted to make them systematically beat us." He also implied that he had no say in how DBs were lining up. Those type of things.

So that doesn't suggest dysfunction? LOL. I don't know what does.

I didn't just go on some emotional tangent and delve deep into some Rivera hate fest. I was driving the Rivera fanwagon when we hired him. Go look up my posts from early on in his tenure. I believed in him. But, the things he has said and the things he has done have given me reason not to. I didn't just assume all of this and decide he wasn't the guy, there is proof in the things people from within the organization have said. So, you can keep discounting my for being an "outsider," but no matter what one may think, WE ARE ALL OUTSIDERS on this board.

So, unless you have evidence supporting your assumptions of what's going on in Rivera's brain, then I'll ride it out with the evidence that I have heard and saw to support my opinion.

OL couldn't create holes....and Double Trouble where off to their standard slow start (one that dates back to Fox era). I didn't think Chud did a great job but G play was a disaster (negatively impacted us all year but was horrific early).

I don't recall Rivera claiming he had no say in how the DBs played....he constantly said they didn't often play the coverage the way he wanted.

a lot of Rivera's "worst" calls weren't bad calls....he just didn't have the talent early to execute it on defense. Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't deal.

OL play IMO was the biggest reason we failed to meet expectations, then Chud in general. I think we still could of won w/ Chud's playcalling w/ better OL play

[CRA]

I go back to Steve Wilks.

Wilks was the guy Rivera really wanted for his DC when he first got here, but as I recall, the Chargers wouldn't give permission or something. Bottom line, we couldn't get him. Rivera kept Ron Meeks, but it wasn't who he really wanted.

A year later, Wilks' contract is up. Ron Meeks is let go and Rivera brings in the guy he really wanted to begin with.

There are guys with prior Rivera connections at all three coaching spots who are part of staffs currently in flux due to their head coach being fired. Won't surprise me if one or all of them wind up here. In the case of the receivers, you could also just see in-house assistant Ricky Proehl promoted (pretty sure fans would love that if it happened).

So like I said in another thread, before I make a judgment on the firing of these coaches, I wanna see who their replacements wind up being. If it turns out we get better guys, then I'm fine with that.

THIS.

Scapegoat crowd has an agenda IMO. Rivera simply could be going to get guys he wanted vs. keeping guys he settled for.

[carolinarolls]

I'm gonna start referring to Gantt rants as "Grantts" B)

Remember when people used to accuse him of being an ass kisser to the team?

he was an ass kisser

apparently some shuffling of priviliges has taken place and Gantt got snubbed. good for him to take someone, anyone to the carpet.

[CRA]

he was an ass kisser

apparently some shuffling of priviliges has taken place and Gantt got snubbed. good for him to take someone, anyone to the carpet.

meh, Gantt just clearly took a seat on the Rivera should go bandwagon awhile back.....that opinion is all over his Panther reporting.

[carolinarolls]

meh, Gantt just clearly took a seat on the Rivera should go bandwagon awhile back.....that opinion is all over his Panther reporting.

ahh, i don't read him. never liked him cuz he seemed like such an ass kissing, injury blaming, Panthers org. mouthpiece.

shame. I thought he finally grew a pair.

[Proudiddy]

You obviously have an axe to grind as well. You wanted Rivera gone and now blame him for everything happening. Fine.

But going back and forth seems useless. You and I obviously are working on different assumptions about the team and coaches. Nothing I say will change your mind so I won't waste my time.

No, I don't have an axe to grind. I find it hilarious that when anyone doesn't take the company line from our front office that they are "bitter" or have an "axe to grind."

As with anything, there are two sides of the argument here between you and I... Odds are the truth lies somewhere in between.

I was just elaborating on my point P55, because you asked for an explanation of why I thought what I did or felt what I felt about the situation. So, I explained it. But, then you continued to insinuate that I was being irrational or speaking purely out of emotion because my stance didn't jibe with yours.

It's fine to disagree. I appreciate your posts and perspective. But, I don't like feeling like someone is being condescending towards my view when it is just as grounded or as far-fetched as theirs depending on how you view it. I don't see anything that differentiates my opinion from yours as far as what it is based on, we just differ on the opinion itself.

No big deal, and if you don't want to debate it, that's understandable... I'd just prefer you didn't write it off as irrational or emotion-based because you don't agree with it, because it isn't.

[raleigh-panther]

i don't have anything to add to this and i don't even agree with a lot of it. i just thought it should appear again.

Rayzor, problems with the Huddle network caused multiple posts.

You have your opinions and I have mine, Its ok to not agree.

Kelly will get his chance. It will be interesting to see what he does with it.

[PantherBrew]

No, I don't have an axe to grind. I find it hilarious that when anyone doesn't take the company line from our front office that they are "bitter" or have an "axe to grind."

As with anything, there are two sides of the argument here between you and I... Odds are the truth lies somewhere in between.

I was just elaborating on my point P55, because you asked for an explanation of why I thought what I did or felt what I felt about the situation. So, I explained it. But, then you continued to insinuate that I was being irrational or speaking purely out of emotion because my stance didn't jibe with yours.

It's fine to disagree. I appreciate your posts and perspective. But, I don't like feeling like someone is being condescending towards my view when it is just as grounded or as far-fetched as theirs depending on how you view it. I don't see anything that differentiates my opinion from yours as far as what it is based on, we just differ on the opinion itself.

No big deal, and if you don't want to debate it, that's understandable... I'd just prefer you didn't write it off as irrational or emotion-based because you don't agree with it, because it isn't.

Get out of here with your rational, polite debate. This is America.

[fjblair]

Everybody can bicth and whine about Gantt being an idiot all day long but he is absolutely dead on. Perfect summary of the Panthers situation. The problem is Jerry Richardson is largely clueless about how to construct a winning team. A good businessman does not necessarily make for an owner of winning NFL franchise. It's been proven over and over and over.