Luck, Griffin, Wilson, Kaepernick, Ponder, Dalton, Fox. All in playoffs.

[CRA]

luck's stats weren't as impressive as Cam's last year but tbh his game winning drivers were VERY big this year. not saying he is as good as Cam or anything like that, but you can't just look at his stats.

that being said I'd probably still vote for RG3 (or fug, alfred morris holy crap) for OROY.

yeah but game winning drives is all a team oriented thing. Skip Bayless would argue it isn't and was just The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Big difference between a QB needing to drive 30 yards with a timeout for a fg winning with 1:45 on the clock......vs. asking a QB to drive 80 yards, needing a TD, no timeouts, 45 sec on the clock. First scenario guy is clutch.....2nd one choked.

I actually think Alfred was more impressive than RGIII this year. RG is hype. His throws aren't impressive. He gets credit for being accurate with them.... Take Alfred away from RGIII and I imagine he would have really struggled this year.

[Fox007]

yeah but game winning drives is all a team oriented thing. Skip Bayless would argue it isn't and was just The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Big difference between a QB needing to drive 30 yards with a timeout for a fg winning with 1:45 on the clock......vs. asking a QB to drive 80 yards, needing a TD, no timeouts, 45 sec on the clock. First scenario guy is clutch.....2nd one choked.

I actually think Alfred was more impressive than RGIII this year. RG is hype. His throws aren't impressive. Take Alfred away from RGIII and I imagine he would have really struggled this year.

We seem to be thinking very similar this AM.

[mav1234]

yeah but game winning drives is all a team oriented thing. Skip Bayless would argue it isn't and was just The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Big difference between a QB needing to drive 30 yards with a timeout for a fg winning with 1:45 on the clock......vs. asking a QB to drive 80 yards, needing a TD, no timeouts, 45 sec on the clock. First scenario guy is clutch.....2nd one choked.

okay. it is a team game, I agree... but Luck doesn't exactly have a great defense behind him like The Golden Calf of Bristol did.

let's look at 4 of Luck's 4th quarter/OT winning TD drives...

vs GB, GB up 27 to 22, 4:30 left, drive took 4 minutes. 81 yards, 2 pt conversion.

vs TEN, overtime, Colts get possession first. 76 yards for a TD.

vs DET, DET up 33 to 28, 1:07 left. 1:07 drive, 76 yards.

vs KC, score tied 13-13, 10 min left in the 4th, 6 min drive, 73 yards

There were other drives that ended in FGs to win or preserve leads, and if those were the only ones he had then you'd have a point, but that is NOT the case. He had long fields on multiple occasions, with varying amounts of time on the clock, and he was able to drive his team down the field and help them win the game. yes it's a team game, and it's not like Luck was a 4th quarter god, but I think his game winning drives were very impressive for a rookie.

[CRA]

okay. it is a team game, I agree... but Luck doesn't exactly have a great defense behind him like The Golden Calf of Bristol did.

let's look at 4 of Luck's 4th quarter/OT winning TD drives...

vs GB, GB up 27 to 22, 4:30 left, drive took 4 minutes. 81 yards, 2 pt conversion.

vs TEN, overtime, Colts get possession first. 76 yards for a TD.

vs DET, DET up 33 to 28, 1:07 left. 1:07 drive, 76 yards.

vs KC, score tied 13-13, 10 min left in the 4th, 6 min drive, 73 yards

There were other drives that ended in FGs to win or preserve leads, and if those were the only ones he had then you'd have a point, but that is NOT the case. He had long fields on multiple occasions, with varying amounts of time on the clock, and he was able to drive his team down the field and help them win the game. yes it's a team game, and it's not like Luck was a 4th quarter god, but I think his game winning drives were very impressive for a rookie.

I am not saying Luck wasn't impressive for a rookie.....just that game winning drives in the QB conversation is muddy water. Lot more to it than some admit.

another example. Let's say Cam Newton gets the title of not being able to finish....it generally is all assumed to be a "Cam" issue. QBs often find themslves in the exact scenarios Cam has late....but got big plays from D or ST to seal the game. Cam in close games has remarkably gotten very little help.

That doesn't excuse Cam b/c there are some where he could of played better at points....but it is rather comical some of the games his team has lost over the course of two years. Many "winners" have done much less early on in their careers and earned much better media praise as they gladly had timely help from their team.

[mav1234]

I don't think it is fair to give a QB with as little experience as Cam has the title of "not being able to finish," but I think that it is reasonable to say that this season anyway, Luck has been able to finish games. If you want to bring Cam into that discussion in some form go for it but that is not what I am trying to do. The reality is that if Luck doesn't have those 4th quarter drives, he's probably not in the post season. I have no idea if we make the postseason if we change things about our season.

But keep in mind I'm pretty sure Romo made a name early in his career for 4th quarter heroics (may be wrong - some reason I think that)... we'll see what the rest of Luck's career has to say...

I don't think we need to say that just because Luck has been great in putting together winning drives this year, by necessity there are other QBs who are failing to do so and need to be looked at poorly

[CPF4LIFE]

Wilson should be OROY IMO

RG3 had like what 100 yards passing last night?

RG3 may not even be the best rookie on his own team.

He isnt. Been saying it all season.

[CPF4LIFE]

If the redskins cant run the ball against the seahawks its gonna get ugly real quick.

[CRA]

I don't think it is fair to give a QB with as little experience as Cam has the title of "not being able to finish," but I think that it is reasonable to say that this season anyway, Luck has been able to finish games. If you want to bring Cam into that discussion in some form go for it but that is not what I am trying to do. The reality is that if Luck doesn't have those 4th quarter drives, he's probably not in the post season. I have no idea if we make the postseason if we change things about our season.

But keep in mind I'm pretty sure Romo made a name early in his career for 4th quarter heroics (may be wrong - some reason I think that)... we'll see what the rest of Luck's career has to say...

I don't think we need to say that just because Luck has been great in putting together winning drives this year, by necessity there are other QBs who are failing to do so and need to be looked at poorly

well, reality is if The Golden Calf of Bristol didn't have his 4th drives Denver wouldn't of been in the post season last year either.

The Golden Calf of Bristol gets credit. He made those plays. He really does.

The Golden Calf of Bristol is a good example b/c it is an extreme version of it. Which makes the concept simpler. The Golden Calf of Bristol had a poo ton of help. Dever didn't just win b/c of what The Golden Calf of Bristol did. The team put him in position to have those shots. Comically. They also made sure late plays made by him ended up being the game winning plays b/c stopping the other teams, they made his 4th Q plays easy vs other late game scenarios, etc.

Luck has been impressive. No doubt. He isn't as impressive as Indy record might suggest between 2011 and 2012. SPorts is largely an emotional team. That team is overachiving largely around the HC IMO. Luck plays a role in that overachieving, I just think it is drastically overstated by some.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

If the redskins cant run the ball against the seahawks its gonna get ugly real quick.

the seahawks are gonna smash thru washington like the juggernaut on steroids.

[mav1234]

Luck has been impressive. No doubt. He isn't as impressive as Indy record might suggest between 2011 and 2012. SPorts is largely an emotional team. That team is overachiving largely around the HC IMO. Luck plays a role in that overachieving, I just think it is drastically overstated by some.

very possible that it is overstated. I do think Luck has been swept up in the emotion, too. Can't blame him at all, either. Very emotional, very impressive season for them.

[pstall]

Wash and Sea did some bold drafting as well.

Just following trends the Panthers should be better and learn how to close games. The tough part is next yrs schedule.

[carolina-chuck]

What they have and we don't have, "good coaching" and a dominant Defense all year round. We only play Defense toward the end of the season.

[TANTRIC-NINJA]

I know one thing; that Colts team is really bad. They have a bad defense, bad offensive line, and Luck wins despite his turnovers. I don't really care anymore, the Panthers just piss me off so much doing the season it don't make since. We go 3-7 in till the month of December and some how we go 4-0 and all of sudden Rivera is safe. I don't understand that but whatever. Everybody already know that JR is cheap and going to bring back Rivera.

Despite the turnovers their division is crap.

[KendrickPanther]

We were competitive in almost every game this year. We just blew it at the end time after time. It was pretty much a given we would mismanage the 4th quarter. We couldn't stop a 2minute drill. We couldnt run a 2 minute drill. We couldnt get a 3 and out when we needed it. We couldn't close a game.

But look at our schedule we lost 5 times to winning teams. Seattle, Chicago, ATL, Denver, and NYG. We lost a real headscratcher to KC and several other nail biters ATL?

Bottom line is we need to become the team other fans mark down as a loss at the begining of the season. We just aren't there yet.