Do not want Chip Kelly after this rumor....

[CarolinaCoolin]

Stew and D-Will always split carries. The main difference with this year, is that neither of them got more than 8 carries a game on average. D-Will has gotten more carries lately as we transitioned away from using the read option as much, and now he is getting his yardage. Yes, teams around the league are using the read option more, yet it's used sparingly. Washington is the only other team that use it frequently, and they use it in the pistol formation. (Which if you are going to use the read option as a base formation, using it in the pistol is the best way to go)

It's that frequency of use that got me shaking my head at the mention of Chip Kelly. One of my biggest problems with Rivera and Chud this year, was their seemingly arrogance with the offense. It seemed like they wanted to look like geniuses by using Cam's running ability, and transitioned our entire offense from what made us the number 5 total offense (I believe) last year. It's like they wanted to revolutionize the league with Cam, and they weren't willing to give up on that plan until Hurney got canned. Even then, they were hesitant to pull back off the read option. To me, Kelly may be another guy who would want to revolutionize the league, and see Cam as his first class ticket to do so. Again to me, it's like taking advantage of a guy who has extraordinary talent, but he still haven't completed the basics of the position yet.

Andrew Luck is much further ahead of Cam Newton in terms of knowledge of the game. By that I mean, Luck was trained to run an NFL offense since college. Cam on the other hand played mostly on his talent. Gene Chizick just rode Cam to a national championship, and Cam's abilities was once again taken advantage of by Chud and Rivera. Now here is the next guy, Chip Kelly, who will want to take advantage of Cam's skills to make a name for himself. I just want someone to teach this guy the basics. Let him grow. I know you made the case concerning an OC and QB coach and it's a good one, but I believe a HC would have more impact on Cam than those guys.

Chip Kelly isn't Rivera chud or gene. Don't make him out to be like them.

[rayzor]

how the position of QB should be played in this league.

right here is your failing.

there is no one way to play QB. there is no set form. there is now way way the position should be played in the league.

it's constantly evolving, just like the game.

was a run first league. now is a pass first league. rule changes facilitated this change.

QBs were largely meant to be game managers and there was no real need to be mobile. now defenses have had to adjust to the league being pass heavy and have had to learn to speed up what they do and get to the QB. manning and brady switched to a hurry up offense so they can continue to survive. if you can't do that, you'd better run. that's why rivers, who used to be a really good QB, is now essentially playing like crap. plays in the system takes too long to develop and pass rushers can get to him. since he's mobile as a flip flop i lost in the mud near my pond somewhere during the summer, he's sucking it up. either get rid of the ball quick or run.

now you have QBs running a lot of read option. it hasn't been completely successful yet because teams are just now learning how to use it, but it will work. that's why coaches are looking for QBs who can run it and are pressing to make it happen. jim harbaugh is even using it with kaepernick. we'll see more of it over the next few years and it won't go the way of the wildcat because it's got a lot more versatility.

there is really no difference in it from more traditional running plays except that the runner can either be the RB or the QB. that's it. in kelly's case, it's a run first offense with an option as to who's going to run the ball. it's not been successful yet because OLines don't know how to block for it and the guys calling the plays and running the offenses haven't had much experience with it...but they're learning because they know that it's a way to open more things up on offense. it's how the running game is going to take more of a forefront in the league again.

cam is the new prototype. cam plays the way a QB should. he's a passer capable of running the ball. the biggest mistake that can be made is to try and force him into the game manager box, esp. under the misguided perception that "that's the way the QB position should be played."

[rayzor]

So far, all I've seen Kelly run is the read option spread. That's it, that's all I have to go on.

you haven't seen the bubble screens, the play action, etc? because it's been there.

they mix in a whole lot of more traditional football in what they do, but you either don't really watch it or can't tell what's going on because they run it all out of basically the same couple formations...disguising what they do.

he mixes old school and new school football. he's about as balanced an offense as your gonna get and those that miss the days of a good running game are going to love watching his offense because it's there and it's fast and physical....and get this....HE USES THE FRIKKIN RBs!!!!!!! yes, the QB has the option to run with it, but it's done sparingly.

they run the ball 30+ times a game and the QB only gets a handful of those. cam may run more than the other kelly QBs, but it wouldn't be much more and he wouldn't be getting more carries than the RBs.

[carpanfan96]

Stew and D-Will always split carries. The main difference with this year, is that neither of them got more than 8 carries a game on average. D-Will has gotten more carries lately as we transitioned away from using the read option as much, and now he is getting his yardage. Yes, teams around the league are using the read option more, yet it's used sparingly. Washington is the only other team that use it frequently, and they use it in the pistol formation. (Which if you are going to use the read option as a base formation, using it in the pistol is the best way to go)

It's that frequency of use that got me shaking my head at the mention of Chip Kelly. One of my biggest problems with Rivera and Chud this year, was their seemingly arrogance with the offense. It seemed like they wanted to look like geniuses by using Cam's running ability, and transitioned our entire offense from what made us the number 5 total offense (I believe) last year. It's like they wanted to revolutionize the league with Cam, and they weren't willing to give up on that plan until Hurney got canned. Even then, they were hesitant to pull back off the read option. To me, Kelly may be another guy who would want to revolutionize the league, and see Cam as his first class ticket to do so. Again to me, it's like taking advantage of a guy who has extraordinary talent, but he still haven't completed the basics of the position yet.

Andrew Luck is much further ahead of Cam Newton in terms of knowledge of the game. By that I mean, Luck was trained to run an NFL offense since college. Cam on the other hand played mostly on his talent. Gene Chizick just rode Cam to a national championship, and Cam's abilities was once again taken advantage of by Chud and Rivera. Now here is the next guy, Chip Kelly, who will want to take advantage of Cam's skills to make a name for himself. I just want someone to teach this guy the basics. Let him grow. I know you made the case concerning an OC and QB coach and it's a good one, but I believe a HC would have more impact on Cam than those guys.

I think your going to run into that problem no matter who comes into Carolina as the HC. They are going to see Cam and think they can get him to a point where he can do everything. It's either that or someone is going to come in and try to squeeze cam into a pure pro offense, which isn't the right call either. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Newton running the ball a lot, it's one of his biggest attributes to the team and needs to be taken advantage of. A fine balance needs to be made and I think the team has been pretty balanced the past two years. The main reason that Cam leads the team in rushing is because of his YPC average is so damn high.

Stewart has 235 carries for 1097 yards and a 4.67 YPC average over the last two years and that's with him missing 6 games.

Williams has 307 carries for 1363 yards and a 4.44 YPC average over the last two years.

Cam has 246 carries for 1413 yards and a 5.7 YPC average over the last two years.

During that time Newton has 22 rushing touchdowns, while Williams has 10 and Stewart has 5. It's been a pretty balanced rushing attack.

Edit: To add to the above that's Williams averaging almost 10 carries a game over the last two years at 9.9

Stewart averaging over 7 carries a game

Newton averaging right at 7.7 carries a game.

That's not exactly a ton of carries for a damn good running QB and that's the RB's averaging right at 17 carries a game. Not counting the other players that have rushing attempts either.

[rayzor]

For those who keep bringing up NE when talking on Kelly, if I could visualize Cam running the offense like Brady, I would say bring Kelly in yesterday. (Imagine a mobile Tom Brady) Yet I know what Kelly's offense will look like here. The same offense I've seen him run at Oregon. I envision Cam looking more like Darren Thomas/Marcus Mariota than Tom Brady.

Now I also keep hearing that Chip is going to adjust his offense to fit a more pro form, yet I wonder, has there been any presidence for this kind of transition before? Did another college coach in the past who ran something akin to the read option offense, make a successful transition to the pros?

the only major difference between what kelly's QBs and brady does is that they have the option to run every once in a while. brady won't be doing that. you know why? because he can't. if brady could, i'm sure he would more.

you make it sound like kelly's QBs do a ton of running. they do some and it may be more than your typical old school pocket passing QB, but it's still not as much as what cam has been doing.

the option is there as it should be for cam to run the ball. that's a gift he has and it's a way to put more points on the board and gives the defenses something more to worry about. i can't for the life of me understand why anyone would think this a bad thing.

[Mr. Scot]

Couple of things to remember when you're talking about Brady.

One, he's generally one of the most consistent quarterbacks in the league. He usually looks the same on the first snap as he does on the last. When he's on his game, he makes very few bad throws. And it's difficult to get him off his game because he's not easily rattled (the Giants know how to do it, though).

Newton has a lot going for him, but consistency is one of those things that still needs work. Like most gunslinger types, he's still streaky. What you wanna hope for there is that, like Favre at his best, his good streaks last longer and his off streaks get shorter.

The other thing on Brady: He's working with a staff that knows him very well, and thus knows how to call just the right plays to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Newton doesn't have that yet, and while a new offensive staff might have a good system for him, it'll still take them time to really get to know all his "good and bad".

And naturally, throw in that Brady's been in the league forever so any comparisons to a 23 year old kid are gonna be a little loose.

[Matthias]

I left the conversation early last night, so I'll respond to what I was saying concerning Cam playing the position as it should be.

I'm not talking per say about not using his running ability. I'm not a big fan of designed runs, nor the read option, but anytime Cam naturally takes off is a huge advantage. Yet what I meant by playing the position as it should be, I'm talking about dissecting defenses with his arm. We see Cam has the ability to throw in tight windows, but his footwork sucks. His pocket awareness is average, and he needs to work on his anticipation. These are the things Chud and his crew failed to work on with Cam, because they were so busy thinking on how Cam will be a one man show this year. Guys like Peyton and Brady have mastered the basics concerning that. Which is why they average 12 wins a year, and why their teams are always in the conversation of the superbowl.

Having the ability to run is great, but if you can't dissect defenses, you are nothing in this league. (Unless you have a HOF defense and HOF talent playing along side you) Aaron Rodgers (a guy who is mobile enough to run) is a prime example of what I want Cam to be, but I know Cam can be a much better QB than Rodgers. Yet he must master the basics first.

[carp24000]

Want chip Kelly.

[carolinarolls]

a guy in his spot who has a LOT to lose is very smart to want as much control as possible. You don't want to leave the empire he has built in the Great Northwest to a situation where your hands are tied.

It's not pure ego if you can actually get what you are asking for

[KJ89]

He runs the read option because it WORKS. If it didn't, then be wouldn't. This isn't Chud.

[Matthias]

He runs the read option because it WORKS. If it didn't, then be wouldn't. This isn't Chud.

It works at the college level. On this level it works on a limited basis. The true essence of the read option is the home run hit. It's not meant to be a main formation play, but something to keep defenses guessing. With Chip Kelly, I've never seen him run a play from a different formation. His whole offense is pretty much centered around lining up from the shotgun, and all of his runs are read option plays.

That is what will not work in the NFL. To have all your running plays coming from the read option. Now once again, Washington run their read option out of the pistol formation. If Kelly is going to have success with his offense, he would probably have to run something similar to Washington. Yet all in all, I want Cam to learn how to be a QB. I want him to learn the basics. Will Kelly teach him those things? I have my doubts.

[KJ89]

It works at the college level.

He's coaching a college team, believe it or not.

That's what I'm saying. He knows it won't work as well or the same. He's not dumb. Far from it.

[rayzor]

It works at the college level. On this level it works on a limited basis. The true essence of the read option is the home run hit. It's not meant to be a main formation play, but something to keep defenses guessing. With Chip Kelly, I've never seen him run a play from a different formation. His whole offense is pretty much centered around lining up from the shotgun, and all of his runs are read option plays.

That is what will not work in the NFL. To have all your running plays coming from the read option. Now once again, Washington run their read option out of the pistol formation. If Kelly is going to have success with his offense, he would probably have to run something similar to Washington. Yet all in all, I want Cam to learn how to be a QB. I want him to learn the basics. Will Kelly teach him those things? I have my doubts.

you still aren't getting it.

that isn't the essence of it.

yes...they run everything from that formation because they want the defense to expect it every play....which doesn't happen and which is why they are able to be so successful. just because they line up like they are going to run it doesn't mean they are. it's misdirection. they make it respectful enough and run it enough for it to be a legit threat. defenses overload the backfield trying to contain it and they are normally pretty successful at stopping it, at least eventually.

but it's while the defense is expecting it and trying to stop it that they leave themselves exposed to big non-read option plays that kelly has run...more traditional plays.

it's not the read option that makes it work. it's running the ball well. the read option is just another running play. they make the offense respect the running game and make it a threat that is constantly there and then take advantage of it.

he's said that they run the read option because it works for what they want to do, which is be physical and run the ball well enough that it funnels the energies of the defense in a direction that you want and use that against them. it's like judo. you use your opponents energy against them.

[Mr. Scot]

Word now that the Browns are pursuing him.

LaCanfora says they want to move quickly on their coaching search. Also said to be looking at Saban and Josh McDaniels.