Regarding Ron Rivera...why would next year be any different?

[Matthias]

There's a lot of talk that Ron Rivera has shown enough in the past few games to warrant keeping his job one more year. Granted, the team is playing well right now. A three game winning streak is nothing to sneeze at. But why should we think 2013 is going to go any different than 2012 or 2011?

The 2011 and 2012 seasons are mirror images of each other in terms of team performance. In 2011 the team lost a lot of close games early in the season (many due to defensive meltdowns) but finished strong by feasting on a weak schedule late in the year. 2012 is shaping up to finish the same way. The 2012 team lost a lot of close games, and several due to defensive meltdowns. Both teams beat a playoff contender late in the year (Houston in 2011, Atlanta in 2012). Only way it could change is if the Panthers manage to scrape together a win against the Saints in the Superdome.

Why, after two seasons of the exact same trends, should we as fans think that the team will perform any different next year? Because Cam will be a year older/more mature and have another year in the system? Because a new GM is going to bring in better talent than Hurney did? Because Ron Rivera took a long time to figure out how to win as an NFL head coach and the third years the charm? I'd love to be wrong but I just see 2013 being the same as 2012 and 2011 if Ron Rivera stays...why should we think anything will change?

tl;dr - If Ron Rivera remains HC of the Panthers in 2013, why should we as fans expect the results to be any different than the previous two seasons. What would change?

Because hopefully we will have a new OC. One who doesn't enjoy seeing the read option as much.

[osd22]

Nothing would change IMO, late in close games he is losing his mind. He has to go.

[DaCityKats]

cam is a nfl QB,if he has to learn a new system, than he will. he will put the time and effort into it, thats a lame excuse for keeping an average coach.

[pstall]

You have to give him at least one more year out of sheer continuity. In year 3 we have a better sample size of what he is capable or incapable of doing.

If anything, keeping the current staff intact with a new GM can actually buy the new GM time. If they blow up the team and it's the new GM's baby it all falls on that guy right out of the gate.

This may be JR's toughest offseason this upcoming one. Many coaches who have been succesful were on thin ice in year 2 or 3 and the owner/GM's stuck with them and it paid off. Knowing when to cut your losses and when to stay the course in pro sports is super tough.

[AceMan]

Maybe I'm overstating it, but the team has talent. I don't think Hurney was the issue. Yes, a few bounces go the other way, maybe the team wins a few more games. But maybe they don't.

I look at the Bears game, when Ron Rivera admitted he called the soft zone coverage on the final drive when the Bears walked down the field and scored to win the game at the end. Rivera didn't use the final timeout he had when the Bears kept running the same play up and down the field. Good coaching?

Hurney defender or you just want to spread the blame around?

And we need to pull the plug now while we have the perfect opportunity...I just don't see Rivera improving into a playoff-caliber coach next season. Most people might not like it, but we need complete turnover. New GM, New Head Coach, New attitude. We screwed the pooch with Hurney and Rivera, time to admit those mistakes and move into a new direction.

[PhillyB]

<------------- ambivalent as long as we get a new GM and he has his way with coach selection

[DaveThePanther2008]

I like Rivera but he is like so many coordinators that try their hands at HC. He belongs the head of a defense not a team. Last year we gave him the defense in shambles excuse and a rookie QB though we were 5th in total offense. This year even with an injured defense we are playing better. Decision in crunch time and he froze like Matt Ryan in a playoff game.

New GM, New Coach. I see the SSDD same poo different day in our case same poo different year.

Maybe after a couple years he can pull a Bill Billicheat and become an HOF coach.

Not here, not with the Panthers

[KJ89]

I admit to some mixed feelings on this issue. What Ron and his staff has done with our defense has been exemplary, and I hate the thought of changes on that side of the ball. On the other hand, our offense was so mismanaged for the first half of the year that I don't know if I will ever regain faith in our offensive staff. And yes, Ron, like it or not, you bear responsibility for that side of the ball too.

There are a couple other things that bother me regarding coaching:

1) Watching our special teams on extra point and field goal attempts by the opposing teams, I see players just going through the motions. We never seem to make any extra effort to block or disrupt a kick. Yes, these are low percentage plays, but teams are so close in this league that every single edge counts. If our guys half-ass these plays, maybe they are giving less than 100% in other areas.

2) Ron has a bit too much John Fox in him, in that he tends to stick with certain players too long. I saw this as a problem last year with Naanee and McClain and Fua. This year, it was sticking with an underperforming Beason until there was no choice but to put him on IR. We stick with Nakamura virtually all year, then when he goes out, we see an instant improvement by inserting DJ Campbell and moving Godfrey to FS. We stuck with Norman too long, imo, as well. Seeing what Thomas has done after Gamble went out, it is clear he should have been playing opposite Gamble early while Norman got his reps in practice. Ron seems to only make changes once he's backed into a corner.

I just don't see us ever having a complete team with Ron at the helm.

That about sums up my feelings as well.

[MadHatter]

My response to that is...the Panthers already have the talent to be a winning football team. A few balls bounce the other way and the Panthers are staring down a wildcard spot. Hurney left the team with plenty of talent...and I don't really think that was the main issue when the team was losing close game after close game the past two seasons.

Some of those close losses i put on coaching...soft coverage on last drives.

But, many of them were the flat fault of players not executing....Cam fumble, Nakamura jumping too early, Cam throwing the ball into the dirt instead of hitting a wide open TE 3 yds in from of him, Smitty slipping resulting in a pick 6.

Not sure if I would be ok with Rivera back or not. But blaming all if the close losses on just the staff is ridiculous.

[CarolinaCoolin]

All teams that did indeed have pretty good talent, and all of which play in pretty crappy divisions.

You can debate talent vs coaching for the Panthers, but a weak division is something we definitely don't have the good fortune to be in.

The falcons when they brought in mike smith went to the playoffs and they are in the same division as us. New systems aren't the problem. Its the coaches who impliment them. Harbaugh brought out the best in his time. We need to find a coach who can do the same.

[Marguide]

To me, I lean toward giving him a chance because

a) Last season was the first for everybody, plus I don't thin our personnel was as good last year.

B) 2011: 18 players on IR

c) 2012: see ( B) above

d) Team seems to be gelling well now

e) Coaches have a learning curve too

f) JR has always given his HCs three seasons to get it right. I don't see him doing differently now

g) New GM should be able to help with talent and keeping organization (coaches, players, etc.) on point

As to "c" above, injuries this year are no excuse. We were very healthy compared to many teams early in the year, and that's when we really sucked.

It would be easier to make the case that injuries have helped us this year, as the younger guys (at least on D) seem to be outplaying some of the earlier starters.

[jayflip]

If we're really only "a few bounced balls" from a wild card spot, isn't that an argument for Rivera?

For the record though, I'm not as sold on our talent level as you are.

Our starters are pretty talented across the board. But our back ups are nothing but practice squad fodder. When the same injury bug hits us next year that hits is every year, it becomes painfully obvious. The Giants this year game showed me what having quality depth does for a team.

[hepcat]

Hurney defender or you just want to spread the blame around?

And we need to pull the plug now while we have the perfect opportunity...I just don't see Rivera improving into a playoff-caliber coach next season. Most people might not like it, but we need complete turnover. New GM, New Head Coach, New attitude. We screwed the pooch with Hurney and Rivera, time to admit those mistakes and move into a new direction.

Not a Hurney defender because he made many questionable decisions that set the team back. But I think he was a scapegoat for the teams slow start this year. Though I know his firing was meant to send a message to the team saying "get it together or you're next"

That said, the team has talent. Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy both have 10+ sacks, and the defense is ranked in the top 10. And any team with Cam Newton should be at least contending for a playoff spot. The fact that the Panthers aren't, says something about the coaching staff.

[davos]

Putting my opinion on the matter aside, I think it's probable Rivera retains his job next year.

There's gonna be a lot of names out on the coaching market and like pstall mentioned, this may be Jerry's toughest offseason decision he's had to make in a long time, if ever imo.

Deciding on GM and HC for a team with Cam, Keek, Kraken, and Chuck. You gotta think there's gonna be guys gushing over the possibility of coaching us and there's gonna be a big field of candidates. Meanwhile we've seen what's happened the past 3 weeks and it may look to Jerry like our current staff has finally got their act together. This is a complete toss-up right now.

If we get killed by the Saints, I think Rivera is gone; but I honestly can see a scenario with us losing and Rivera staying put.