Steve Smith needs 105 yards

[panthers55]

Why does someone need to be featured? Or better, why do you need an elite featured RB? I already said Cam shouldn't be the featured runner.....that means you just need RBs to run. Not All Pro caliber RBs.

Washington has the top ground game.....he was a FB in camp. The best QBs in the game Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton don't have elite RBs so clearly that isn't a need in order to perform at the highest level.

So now we shouldn't run Newton? He should only run out of desperation? aren't you the guy who agreed his health was in more jeopardy in the pocket as a runner? .....I guess you recently have changed stances.

Cam Newton has potential to be the greatest mismatch in NFL history. If we don't take advantage of it.....we shouldn't of drafted him.

Chud seems to be using him the same as ever IMO. Yeah, he limits the zone read but is using him like last year. He got banged up early last week....so Chud called it off early. Nothing suggests Chud has backed off IMO of Cam being part of the run game.

Again you are skewing things to your purpose. Who led the NFL in all purpose yards in the NFL last year. Yeah that featured runningback for New Orleans Darren Sproles. And Washington may have the top running game this year but lets be real here, the next 4 of the top 5, the 49ers, Seattle, Viking and Houston all do have elite running backs. So should we focus on the 1 exception to the rule without an elite quarterback or should be focus on the other 4 out of 5 who do.

I am the guy who said that he is not going to be hurt running in the open field where he can see people coming rather than getting blindsided by a 300 lb DE crashing down on him. How is that the same as saying I wouldn't run him in third and short when the defense is concentrated to stop a run and linebackers are shooting over the line like a missle. Or that we should concentrate on his passing and allow Williams or Stewardd to be featured as power runningbacks. I am fine with him taking off to avoid sacks and running to get first downs in the open field. I just don't think we need to be running him on designed runs mor than a few times a game whiich is clearly not featuring him.

As for Chud still using him to run too often, I think that is a mistake. Again I am fine with him running to avoid sacks and being blindsided but not as a part of the everyday running game. But that is me.

[Rubi]

And while we are doing that.....we have a QB rewriting the record books on the ground

Ya I wanted to keep both guys around. The contracts were kind of....outrageous....but I thought we would rely heavily on these two guys...wasn't the case...then these crippling contracts become an issue. If the GM wants to invest heavily in one position you better get production. Or else you're pissing away cap space that could be used for another position.

[panthers55]

Stewart:

Cap

2012: 2,711,250

2013: 2,800,000

2014: 5,550,000

2015: 8,300,000

2016: 9,050,000

2017: 7,750,000

Williams:

Cap

2012: 8,700,000

2013: 8,200,000

2014: 9,200,000

2015: 10,200,000

No other team is doing this. If we are going to do this we better have 170 rushing yds from our RBs every week. Cap space you say? After this season we don't have the space to field a 53 man roster. It's not about this season. It's about going forward. Get a clue meatball

Again who says we are going to keep both of them or what scheme we will run. If it Chud's then it doesn't make sense to keep both of them. As for cap space when have we ever gone over the cap or not gotten who we wanted.You are just like the chicken little folks were this offseason predicting gloom and doom. Remember when we didn't have any cap space this year and weren't going to be able to sign Smitty or Stewart? Funny how that worked out with leftover cap pace we didn't use.

Guss what Einstein, the same thing will happen next year as well. Talking heads will talk about how bad things are and how we will have to cut lots of veterans, the same bitchers ad whiners will blame everything on Stewart and Williams contacts and we will have to suffer through tons of chicken little posts from guys like you. And just like every year, we will manipulate the cap and fit under it while still getting the folks we want.

[CRA]

Again you are skewing things to your purpose. Who led the NFL in all purpose yards in the NFL last year. Yeah that featured runningback for New Orleans Darren Sproles. And Washington may have the top running game this year but lets be real here, the next 4 of the top 5, the 49ers, Seattle, Viking and Houston all do have elite running backs. So should we focus on the 1 exception to the rule without an elite quarterback or should be focus on the other 4 out of 5 who do.

I am the guy who said that he is not going to be hurt running in the open field where he can see people coming rather than getting blindsided by a 300 lb DE crashing down on him. How is that the same as saying I wouldn't run him in third and short when the defense is concentrated to stop a run and linebackers are shooting over the line like a missle. Or that we should concentrate on his passing and allow Williams or Stewardd to be featured as power runningbacks. I am fine with him taking off to avoid sacks and running to get first downs in the open field. I just don't think we need to be running him on designed runs mor than a few times a game whiich is clearly not featuring him.

As for Chud still using him to run too often, I think that is a mistake. Again I am fine with him running to avoid sacks and being blindsided but not as a part of the everyday running game. But that is me.

Not skewing anything....

A moderately priced role player lead the NFL in all purpose yards. Again, they didn't invest in 2 RBs like we have.

Okay, dismiss the fact the top rushing attack the last two seasons has used a QB as part of their run game. Clearly that is a whacky fluke and not a trend. Russell Wilsom of Seattle is also on pace to rush the ball 90 times.

If you don't use Cam is part of your ground attack (designed).....he never reaches his potential nor do you use him in favor of the TREMENDOUS mismatch he is. Carolina has.....and all signs point to that continuing.......which brings me back to my point brought up last offseason. Which is you don't need 2 elite RBs with Newton on your roster. Not if you plan on tapping into all Newton has to offer. Which we are. Which makes our move to sign both RBs silly....or I should say sillier as it is silly no matter who your QB is

[panthers55]

And while we are doing that.....we have a QB rewriting the record books on the ground

When did you switch from a Panthers fan to a Washington redskins fan. Or I guess you didn't know that RGIII has a hundred more yards rushing and a higher yards per carry average than Newton.

[Rubi]

Again who says we are going to keep both of them or what scheme we will run. If it Chud's then it doesn't make sense to keep both of them. As for cap space when have we ever gone over the cap or not gotten who we wanted.You are just like the chicken little folks were this offseason predicting gloom and doom. Remember when we didn't have any cap space this year and weren't going to be able to sign Smitty or Stewart? Funny how that worked out with leftover cap pace we didn't use.

Guss what Einstein, the same thing will happen next year as well. Talking heads will talk about how bad things are and how we will have to cut lots of veterans, the same bitchers ad whiners will blame everything on Stewart and Williams contacts and we will have to suffer through tons of chicken little posts from guys like you. And just like every year, we will manipulate the cap and fit under it while still getting the folks we want.

Hahahahahahaha what kind of candyland, fantasy island are you living on? Hellooooo if you cut or trade these players/contracts you incur penalty and it accelerates their cap hit...

Not gotten who we wanted? What? We've ignored free agent splashes for how many seasons now? These contracts along with other players who don't produce or are on IR/coming off big injuries/ and aging,.that cripples the flexibility of what the next GM can do. We've been through cap issues before...but there are some unique and significant issues regarding this offseason and the cap that frankly haven't been present before. Doom and gloom...haha....just stating what's on the table. It's gonna be interesting...

Again with your insults...haha. You're the man...

[CRA]

When did you switch from a Panthers fan to a Washington redskins fan. Or I guess you didn't know that RGIII has a hundred more yards rushing and a higher yards per carry average than Newton.

Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

cam is a significantly better runner than RGIII. His runs are much more meaningful....they score TDs and convert 3rd downs. Cams's ypc is brought down bc of so many designed short yardage stuff RGIII simply doesn't see.....Cam actually has more big runs than RGIII this year. More 20+ gains.

[Rubi]

Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

Panthers55 said its ok about the RB cap hit this season since we were under...so it's all good..

[panthers55]

Not skewing anything....

A moderately priced role player lead the NFL in all purpose yards. Again, they didn't invest in 2 RBs like we have.

Okay, dismiss the fact the top rushing attack the last two seasons has used a QB as part of their run game. Clearly that is a whacky fluke and not a trend. Russell Wilsom of Seattle is also on pace to rush the ball 90 times.

If you don't use Cam is part of your ground attack (designed).....he never reaches his potential nor do you use him in favor of the TREMENDOUS mismatch he is. Carolina has.....and all signs point to that continuing.......which brings me back to my point brought up last offseason. Which is you don't need 2 elite RBs with Newton on your roster. Not if you plan on tapping into all Newton has to offer. Which we are. Which makes our move to sign both RBs silly....or I should say sillier as it is silly no matter who your QB is

So lets make sure we are talking the same thing since you seem to be talking out of both sides at the same time. Are you talking feature back from a production point of view or cost. Lets agree that

at the amount of carries that WIlliams and Stewart are getting they are overpriced and not worth it. The point is not whether that is true but whether we could have used them better or built the offense around them. Depending on what scheme they decide to run and who the OC will be, there would be some major changes in the running back picture.

And again who said don't use Newton on designed runs ever? I said I wouldn't do it more than a few times a game. Do the math, if we run him on designed plays 3 times a game that comes out to 48 times a season. Then assume that we have him scramble on 5 plays out of typically 35 dropbacks a game or 80 times a season. You add those together and you get 128 rushes per season. Gee how many rushes did he have in total last year- 126. So far this year- 108 so he is pace for about the same.

So again what are you arguing about???

[panthers55]

Panthers55 said its ok about the RB cap hit this season since we were under...so it's all good..

Funny how you have to distort my words to try and win the argument. Fortunately most people see through your shoddy logic and grade school arguments. Unless that is truly what you got from my discusion which speaks to your concrete logic.

[frash.exe]

You are right he was inactive not IR.

As for the 1-6 start you think that was Williams and Stewart fault? I thought the consensus was using the read option too much and a defense that played too soft at the end. Which team are you following?? Miami??

That money could've been used to upgrade a defense that gave up too many leads in the 4th

[CRA]

So lets make sure we are talking the same thing since you seem to be talking out of both sides at the same time. Are you talking feature back from a production point of view or cost. Lets agree that

at the amount of carries that WIlliams and Stewart are getting they are overpriced and not worth it. The point is not whether that is true but whether we could have used them better or built the offense around them. Depending on what scheme they decide to run and who the OC will be, there would be some major changes in the running back picture.

And again who said don't use Newton on designed runs ever? I said I wouldn't do it more than a few times a game. Do the math, if we run him on designed plays 3 times a game that comes out to 48 times a season. Then assume that we have him scramble on 5 plays out of typically 35 dropbacks a game or 80 times a season. You add those together and you get 128 rushes per season. Gee how many rushes did he have in total last year- 126. So far this year- 108 so he is pace for about the same.

So again what are you arguing about???

I am saying you need NEITHER an elite paid RB nor a RB you feed the ball 20 times a game to. You just need RBs that serve roles and fit what you do....and that is more so the case when you have someone unique like Cam at QB.

And again, your entire RB argument is if used Double Trouble how you see fit....it is worth it. But we don't and aren't. You basically say, it is irreverent that in reality we drastically overpay the RB position.....bc we technically could pound them 30-40 times a game.

We need to invest in the OL....not RBs. OL serves two functions. You can find affordable RBs and have a successful run game. Whether you admit it or not....you attempt to paint the angle of not wanting Double Trouble means someone is arguing either Cam should be the primary runner or that we don't think running is important.

[panthers55]

Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

That rookie rushing record has already been topped by RGIII with 2 games left. And rushing TDs are not really germaine to the discussion of whether we need running backs or not. SO really the only record he will have is rushing TDs and other teams prefer their running backs do the dirty work. Not sure how they has anything to do with why we shouldn't have a running game. The fact that he accounted for 15 last year and is on schedule for half that this year makes the case for a feature running back not diminish it. Unless you think he should run it more.

[Rubi]

Funny how you have to distort my words to try and win the argument. Fortunately most people see through your shoddy logic and grade school arguments. Unless that is truly what you got from my discusion which speaks to your concrete logic.

"First of all the contracts have not been ridiculous up to this point. Williams who makes the lion share is getting paid 4.75 million this year as a salary. With the signing bonus the hit to the cap is roughly 8 million. Stewart as a salary is making $875,000 with a signing bonus of 1.9 million or a total of 2.75 million."

Go add up all the #s and you'll finally see the point everyone is tryin to make. Here we have a combined cap hit of over 10 million. Yet our QB leads the team in rushing. You're saying "if we had used them more"....well we didn't. Therefore the contracts aren't justified. GM and staff weren't on same page. The season ended up a waste. Because of philosophy disconnect