Steve Smith needs 105 yards

[Rubi]

Panthers55:

Thinks Kuechly runs the offense

Thinks Beason was healthy to start season even though he missed preseason

Thinks the RB contracts on this team are ok...

You're right...no sense in arguing with someone who has no clue what they're talking about

I'm done

[frash.exe]

You've come a long way Rubi. Just a few short months ago you were advocating the contract extensions.

Welcome to my Ministry

[Rubi]

You've come a long way Rubi. Just a few short months ago you were advocating the contract extensions.

Welcome to my Ministry

This was before we decided to let Cam be our leading rusher and before we went with an option as our base offense. I had no issue signing 2 talented players if we were going to run an offense that utilized them/justified the amount of $ given to them. Clear disconnect between the GM and what staff attempted to do with this offense. We don't have the Receiving options in my opinion to run a west coast NE or spread GB type offense...we had a stable of RBs, paying an ass ton of $ to them...yet they each get the ball 7 times a game...doesn't make sense...that's my problem with that

Hell with Williams, Stewart, Tolbert we should be running a backfield with all 3 on the field at the same time

Would you agree?

[broseidon]

He was a rookie and not ready to run the offense day 1. He learned lot from Beason and grew into the position. I just don't get the constant bashing of the coaching staff on everything. Yes they made mistakes but they have done some things right.

The coaching staff deserves every bit of the bashing they have received this year.

To be happy go lucky with the results we've seen this year is settling for mediocrity.

Sure they did some things right, but there are more questionable moves then moves that produced results.

I would have been happy to see LK playing right off the bat. Any first round pick has the capability to play day one. Theres no need to grow into the position

[CRA]

First of all the contracts have not been ridiculous up to this point. Williams who makes the lion share is getting paid 4.75 million this year as a salary. With the signing bonus the hit to the cap is roughly 8 million. Stewart as a salary is making $875,000 with a signing bonus of 1.9 million or a total of 2.75 million.

That is quite a bit but the 8 million is what the going rate is for a franchise back and Stewart has been cheap up to this point. Williams will stay the same roughly but Stewart will be making the bigger money next year.

So really the issue is not whether they were ridiculous up to now because that weren't but whether they will be next year when the costs really add up.

And combined they have 841 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs.....

18 NFL RBs have more rushing yards than their yardage combined

24 NFL players have rushed for more TDs than their combined TDs

So combined, they aren't giving the production of a featured RB.....

No matter the angle, we aren't getting our monies worth

[panthers55]

p55 the water isn't under the bridge, we're still neck deep in it. 8 million is the going rate for a franchise back, yes. but aren't we assuming a bit here? where is this idea that it's necessary to have a franchise back to be competitive coming from?

it's hard enough to manage talent on a team without blowing a ton of money on multiple players at one position that isn't even critical for success in today's league. that's the burden hurney leaves us with.

I think that some teams can run an offense without a good running game but lets be honest, Cam is not Rodgers or Brady. In our offense we do need a running game if you believe that Chud is coming back and that we will run the same offense. But I will tell you I was very disappointed in the scheme we have run much of the year. It is coincidental that the we are scoring with ease in the last few weeks and our running game has picked up? For that matter in our last 2 games Williams has accounted for over 100 yards combined each contest. And frankly I still don't think Chud is using our backs to their best ability.

[panthers55]

And combined they have 841 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs.....

18 NFL RBs have more rushing yards than their yardage combined

24 NFL players have rushed for more TDs than their combined TDs

So combined, they aren't giving the production of a featured RB.....

No matter the angle, we aren't getting our monies worth

I hope it didn't take too long to figure that out. I don't know that anyone thinks that Chud is emphasizing the running game or using our backs as he should. That is not even part of the debate. The debate is whether we should be utilizing them more given we are locked into paying them, whether we should take a big hit and dump one of both of them, or whether we need a good running game at all using his system.

[CRA]

I think that some teams can run an offense without a good running game but lets be honest, Cam is not Rodgers or Brady. In our offense we do need a running game if you believe that Chud is coming back and that we will run the same offense. But I will tell you I was very disappointed in the scheme we have run much of the year. It is coincidental that the we are scoring with ease in the last few weeks and our running game has picked up? For that matter in our last 2 games Williams has accounted for over 100 yards combined each contest. And frankly I still don't think Chud is using our backs to their best ability.

No he isn't.....

But you have to account for the fact he can sleep walk to 700 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs.....which limits the need for over investing in RBs.

He is another breed. Brady doesn't need an elite rusher bc of what he can do with his arm. Cam doesn't bc of what he can do with his legs. He just needs a RB that fits the scheme and more help elsewhere

[panthers55]

The coaching staff deserves every bit of the bashing they have received this year.

To be happy go lucky with the results we've seen this year is settling for mediocrity.

Sure they did some things right, but there are more questionable moves then moves that produced results.

I would have been happy to see LK playing right off the bat. Any first round pick has the capability to play day one. Theres no need to grow into the position

So who is happy and fine with the results we have gotten?? The debate is whether they have learned through their mistakes as they have struggled and whether they are going to be better coaches going forward. I read today that Rivera admitted that one of his mistakes in putting together his staff was not picking a guy with head coaching experience at the NFL level. He said that he could have used a seasoned guy to mentor him and look over his shoulder. Personally I think that is a guy who is learning from his mistakes who should get another chance if he can win on Sunday.

And no not every first rounder is ready to start day 1. Did you see Jake Locker last night? He isn't ready and it is year 2. Overgeneralizations always get you into trouble.

[panthers55]

No he isn't.....

But you have to account for the fact he can sleep walk to 700 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs.....which limits the need for over investing in RBs.

He is another breed. Brady doesn't need an elite rusher bc of what he can do with his arm. Cam doesn't bc of what he can do with his legs. He just needs a RB that fits the scheme and more help elsewhere

Or you can look at the players you have and fit the scheme to match the players which is what Chud did with Newton. Why it is so hard to not do the same thing with Williams and Stewart? Or at least Chud and Rivera should have told Hurney they don't plan on emphasizing the run game so there was no need too keep Williams, sign Stewart and bring in Tolbert.

Seems to me that there are teams like San Francisco, Houston and Minnesota that are emphasizing the run game with pretty good results. I don't believe the running game is passe or outdated. In fact as teams adapt to stop the pass it gives good running teams an advantage.

[Kakarot]

Hopefully, he gets it this Sunday against the Raiders. He needs to get this record at home.

[panthers55]

Panthers55:

Thinks Kuechly runs the offense

Thinks Beason was healthy to start season even though he missed preseason

Thinks the RB contracts on this team are ok...

You're right...no sense in arguing with someone who has no clue what they're talking about

I'm done

I don't need the court jester to talk for me, I am doing just fine.

Kuechly does run the front seven of the defense. And a typo to the contrary taken to this extreme speaks of your ignorance not mine.

Beason was held out of the preseason for the most part so he would be ready for the regular season, he wasn't injured.

P55 does thinks that the contracts for the running backs could have been manageable if the running game was emphasized much more than it has been.

For example who is bitching about Johnson's contract any more?? Why not?? Because it wasn't that outrageous or because he is producing at a high level?? His total contract is almost as much as Williams and Stewart combined. He was paid as much as both of them at 11 million dollars this year and by 2014 it will be 15 million. But he has produced for the team while the running backs have not. Not because they couldn't but Chud didn't emphasize them which is his fault not theirs.

So you are right you have no clue and I am running out of patience trying to teach a pig to whistle.

[CRA]

Or you can look at the players you have and fit the scheme to match the players which is what Chud did with Newton. Why it is so hard to not do the same thing with Williams and Stewart? Or at least Chud and Rivera should have told Hurney they don't plan on emphasizing the run game so there was no need too keep Williams, sign Stewart and bring in Tolbert.

Seems to me that there are teams like San Francisco, Houston and Minnesota that are emphasizing the run game with pretty good results. I don't believe the running game is passe or outdated. In fact as teams adapt to stop the pass it gives good running teams an advantage.

Your second sentence is answered by your first.

Cam negates the need for Stewart and Williams. Yes, you can make a system more friendly for our RBs than Chud did early but Cam still reduces the need for elite rushers. Investing in other areas helps your best player (Cam) more.

But the big issue here, was a GM and coaching staff being on two different pages. GM is gone....time to move forward with what the coaches want. Williams is a good RB, bad fit. Bad fit was obvious last year when Stewart got the most snaps......and again when he was officially benched this year. Doesn't mean he can't make plays but our staff is looking for a different style. We don't need to continue giving a coach X when he wants Y

[frash.exe]

This was before we decided to let Cam be our leading rusher and before we went with an option as our base offense. I had no issue signing 2 talented players if we were going to run an offense that utilized them/justified the amount of $ given to them. Clear disconnect between the GM and what staff attempted to do with this offense. We don't have the Receiving options in my opinion to run a west coast NE or spread GB type offense...we had a stable of RBs, paying an ass ton of $ to them...yet they each get the ball 7 times a game...doesn't make sense...that's my problem with that

Hell with Williams, Stewart, Tolbert we should be running a backfield with all 3 on the field at the same time

Would you agree?

I don't believe we should subject ourselves to be slaves to running a system because of the money we're investing. So going full house formation with 2 WRs on every play is not going to work, no matter how much talent we have. This year proved that no matter how much talent you have doesn't guarantee you a good running game. Without good blocking from the line even putting these three guys on the field at once isn't going to help. The secret to having a good running game that makes your team better is good blocking, rather than talent at the RB position.

I would've been fine if they let Williams walk and re-signed Stewart. That would've been the best option going forth. Stewart and an oddball committee would've been more than enough to produce.