Pat yas ranking NFC SOUTH RBs

[Baschski]

How is this even a debate? Williams has much better yards per carry, more touch downs, more big plays, and NO FUMBLES. Turner is good but Williams is on top. Hell, J-Stew is probably better than Turner, too.

[Falcons1stPanthers2nd]

How is this even a debate? Williams has much better yards per carry, more touch downs, more big plays, and NO FUMBLES. Turner is good but Williams is on top. Hell, J-Stew is probably better than Turner, too.

I was agreeing with you til this part.

[Tuggle58]

tuggle I know Disinformation Tactics when I see them. You just used the "Straw Man Technique" where you emphasize the weaker part of an opponents argument, dispute it then claim to have won the argument.

No such luck Tuggle, we know what we have in Deangelo and Stewart. While you guys are burning up Turner to get Ryan off the Ground. A sacrifice play. We'll see how it works out soon enough . . . .

Yeah I know I'm using the Straw Man Technique when I say I disagree with a guy who says Turner only has good games indoors. So I can also say that when he posted only certain stats in his original post that he used the "Straw Man Technique" and claimed to have won the argument. Sense making not are you QuasiYoda.

[Tuggle58]

I believe that how good a player is should somewhat be influenced by how large a role he plays on offense. In this case I do give the nod to Turner simple because we have a backup that is on the same level as Turner as a Backup. However I hate to tell you this but I believe the last couple of guys that led the league in attempts had a horrible year the next. Larry Johnson 06 leader, Shaun Alexander 05 leader, Curtis Martin 04, need I go on. Hate to break it to you but the wheels are fixin' to fall off atlanta's burner.

Yeah Portis in 07 I believe led the league in attempts. Finished 4th in rushing yards this year. Both players are around the same height and weight so you're right we'll see what happens this year. They've added another weapon on offense so his carries should be down this year.

[jramsey4]

Yeah Portis in 07 I believe led the league in attempts. Finished 4th in rushing yards this year. Both players are around the same height and weight so you're right we'll see what happens this year. They've added another weapon on offense so his carries should be down this year.

Portis only had 325 (which was only one ahead of number 2) attempts compared to Turners 376. 50 extra carries is like two extra games for most backs. I will guarantee that if he is used like he was last year this year he will have a terrible year. You need a back up that can take more of the load off him if you want him to last.

[QuasiYoda]

Yeah I know I'm using the Straw Man Technique when I say I disagree with a guy who says Turner only has good games indoors. So I can also say that when he posted only certain stats in his original post that he used the "Straw Man Technique" and claimed to have won the argument. Sense making not are you QuasiYoda.

Nice Try Tuggle, Out West a century ago they would have called you a Four Flusher and likely shot you LOL. Trying to slide one by in hopes nobody was watching.

Rayzor only posted Deangelo's & Turner's main line Stats not some obscure weak analysis of Turner's Production so he could knock it down to make it "seem" as if Deangelo is better. He didn't need to Deangelo 's Stats clearly dominate. No need for Cutsie tricks.

Remember That . . . The best way to win an argument is to be on the right side.

5.5 ypc

1 TD once every 15 carries

20+ yard run once every 18 carries

40+ yard run once every 54 carries

doesn't fumble

beats

4.5 ypc,

1 TD once every 22 carries

20+ yard run once every 34 carries

40+ yard run once every 188 carries

1 fumble every 125 carries

Most Everytime

Thanks Tuggle I've had fun cleaning your clock operating with such clear advantages.

Learn to pick your battles, Kid. You'll have more fun.

[Tuggle58]

Nice Try Tuggle, Out West a century ago they would have called you a Four Flusher and likely shot you LOL. Trying to slide one by in hopes nobody was watching.

Rayzor only posted Deangelo's & Turner's main line Stats not some obscure weak analysis of Turner's Production so he could knock it down to make it "seem" as if Deangelo is better. He didn't need to Deangelo 's Stats clearly dominate. No need for Cutsie tricks.

Remember That . . . The best way to win an argument is to be on the right side.

5.5 ypc

1 TD once every 15 carries

20+ yard run once every 18 carries

40+ yard run once every 54 carries

doesn't fumble

beats

4.5 ypc,

1 TD once every 22 carries

20+ yard run once every 34 carries

40+ yard run once every 188 carries

1 fumble every 125 carries

Most Everytime

Thanks Tuggle I've had fun cleaning your clock operating with such clear advantages.

Learn to pick your battles, Kid. You'll have more fun.

Thanks, Kid

The only stat people need to see is go to nfl.com pull up the regular season stats from last year pull up rushing yards and you can see this

http://www.nfl.com/stats/player?seasonId=2008&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go

Beats it most every time except final stats.

No tricks involved.

[jramsey4]

Thanks, Kid

The only stat people need to see is go to nfl.com pull up the regular season stats from last year pull up rushing yards and you can see this

http://www.nfl.com/stats/player?seasonId=2008&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go

Beats it most every time except final stats.

No tricks involved.

Yes because yards are more important then TD's. Isnt scoring the main objective on offense.

[ed bell]

Sorry, but I'm going to cross post this from another thread:

Well, well, well. Sporting News 2008 RB rankings:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=434762

That is enough information for me.

Wow, these polls sure know how not to pick some winners, but Turner and Williams seem to be in the "elete" category now.

[pantherclaw]

hes got turner ranked above stewart and williams. also says williams want last much longer

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcsouth

Think you misread that. He said, the fact that not many people outside of the Carolinas don't know much about Williams, won't last much longer.

[pantherclaw]

All I'm comparing is what the article says best RB in the division. I don't think we should be running our full time RB so much. Question was who was the best RB in the division to me carries and durability should go into the equation. To me if you're going to be the best RB in the division you need to be a full time RB not a part time.

To me, the stats you judge a RB on are simple. First and foremost, touchdowns. Why is that first? Cause you gotta score points to win. Second, is fumbles. Cause no matter how good a RB is, if he fumbles the ball, ya lose control of the game. I'm sure people will argue yards per rush average is important, but in my eyes, as long as a back averages at least 4 yards a carry, he is doing his job. After that, it's all bonus.

You can sit there and argue the higher yards all you want to, but when you are comparing it against a talented 2 back tandum, it's a moot point.

[Peppers90 NC]

To me, the stats you judge a RB on are simple. First and foremost, touchdowns. Why is that first? Cause you gotta score points to win. Second, is fumbles. Cause no matter how good a RB is, if he fumbles the ball, ya lose control of the game. I'm sure people will argue yards per rush average is important, but in my eyes, as long as a back averages at least 4 yards a carry, he is doing his job. After that, it's all bonus.

You can sit there and argue the higher yards all you want to, but when you are comparing it against a talented 2 back tandum, it's a moot point.

I agree with you, there are so many factors involved as to why the numbers end up the way they do. Would Turner be better than Williams in our system? We have a better line than atl, and a huge threat that teams focus on with Smith. Now White is a great player, but not elite like Smith, and doesn't change the game like Smitty. The 5.5 ypc is outstanding, you can almost expect D to break off a huge run every game, starting like week 5 or 6 last year. Most people would say Peterson is the best back, but I can't overlook the 9 fumbles, how many games did that cost them last year? Going back to rush attempts, doesnt include the 18 attempts of a MEASLY 2.3 ypc in their playoff game that Turner put up. Atl needs to feed Norwood the ball more if they can split time, but I don't believe they will split carries almost in half like D and Stew. I look for our boys to be better for longer.

[pantherclaw]

Another thing, if Atlanta had a more talented and consistent back behind Turner, Turner's carries would go down. So the whole "carrying the offense" thing is bullcrap. In todays NFL, you don't want 1 back to carry the offense if he doesn't have to. It just to much wear and tear on your back, and he's not as fresh in December and Janurary.

[rayzor]

Yeah I know I'm using the Straw Man Technique when I say I disagree with a guy who says Turner only has good games indoors. So I can also say that when he posted only certain stats in his original post that he used the "Straw Man Technique" and claimed to have won the argument. Sense making not are you QuasiYoda.

prove otherwise....i dare you. i'm saying that it goes further than indoors...it's indoors, on turf, at home, against weakened run Ds. those are the just about the ONLY times he has big games.

Thanks, Kid

The only stat i want people to see because it makes me look like i know what i'm talking about and makes my RB look better than yours is go to nfl.com pull up the regular season stats from last year pull up rushing yards and you can see this

http://www.nfl.com/stats/player?seasonId=2008&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go

Beats it most every time except final stats.

No tricks involved.

fixed for accuracy.

if all that matters is yards...then yes. you give williams or even stewart as many carries as turner had and what do their yards look like? what do their TDs look like? compare that with turner. our backup looks better than your starter.

let's take a look at how "the burner" looked against the defenses he faced last year.

for a visual aid, lets look at these teams turner played last year...judging the quality of the run D.

left side shows the 32 teams ranked by run defense for 2008. The left column has Atlanta's 2008 opponents highlighted, and the right column highlights their 2009 opponents....

top 20 defenses (10 games):

minny: 19/70/1 3.7 ypa (away)

philly: 17/58/0 3.4 (away)

chicago: 25/54/0 2.2 ypa (home)

san D: 31/120/0 3.9 ypa (away)

n'orleans: 27/96/1 3.6 ypa (home), 18/61/1 3.4 ypa (away)

tampa: 14/42/0 3.0 ypa (away), 32/152/1 4.8 ypa(home after carolina exploded their run D)

carolina: 18/56/0 3.1 ypa (home), 24/117/4 4.9 ypa (home)

average against top 10 run Ds:

20/60/.33 3 ypa

avg against top 11-20 run Ds:

23/92/1

avg. against everyone else (6 games):

25/145/1.5 5.8 ypa

next year all teams they play are top 20 run Ds (except bills who are 22nd and have a better run D than the 6 teams he killed). going on that, this is what his record could look like next year:

6 games against top 10 run Ds @ 20/60/.33 3 ypa = 120/360/2

9 games against top 11-20 run Ds @ 23/92/1 = 207/828/9

and on the off chance he treats the bills like he did those last 6 teams this is what he could look like by season's end:

352/1333/12.5

compared to '08:

376/1699/17

352/1333/12.5 this isn't bad but i would also consider this to be near his ceiling for next year.

run Ds are going to be much stouter. pass rushes are going to be fierce. how is that Oline going to hold up against these good defenses? if i was atlanta...i'd be scared of this.

btw...i took some of this info from a discussion i was a part of at another board.