Yasinkas: NFC South QB rankings

[Fireball77]

If Jake doesn't turn the ball over 6 times the game could have been completely different.

The panthers lost by 3 TDs... take away even half of those turnovers and the outcome would have been completely different!! The Panthers defense didn't play especially well, but allowing 33 points when your QB turns the ball over 6 out of 13 possessions (plus a possession where 3 straight incomplete passes on 2nd and 5 led to a turnover on downs.

The Panthers' D only allowed 3 touchdowns and 4 FGs.. on SIX turnovers... I don't buy that the defense couldn't have competed with a better turnover ratio than 6-1.

I didn't say that it couldn't have been a different game had he not had a bad day, I said that even if he had a good/decent day I had no confidence in the D to hold them and gave solid fact based reasons why. Instead of losing by 3tds, they may have lost by 3 points. The Cards went through that defense like a hot knife through butter before Jake ever had one turnover. They weren't tired after all the INTS, their offense had just scored on a nice drive. They didn't adjust well very often in the past, and I had little faith they would be able to do it then, pre turnovers. It would likely still have been an "L" IMO. I don't really care how many points it was by. And no I am not absolving him of blame in that game. The fact of the matter is that we will never know for sure because he did have such a crappy day so that's the only thing a lot of people look at.

[mantal]

That's fine, I'm tired of it. I've said I liked Brees as a QB 3 times and yet you guys are insulted by my comments. Forget it, have fun, I'm out...

[Saint J]

I just gave you the stats you wanted!

[Saint J]

2008 Saints

1033 Total Plays

635 passes= 61%

398 runs= 39%

[top dawg]

Again, I am not making myself feel better about Jake, that's for sure.

Brees is better than Jake no question, but he is not the no. three QB in the league that the media pushes on us. At least not in my book.

I know one thing, he's the best fantasy QB that you could have. I know that sometimes fantasy football and reality are far apart, but in Brees' case I think that he has proven that he is a leader, and you really can't blame too many losses solely on his shoulders (if you're being totally objective). With better protection and another sure-handed receiver, Brees really would be just as scary as P. Manning or Brady (and he's not far from that now).

[top dawg]

Brees is a beast. People should stop denying it and just accept it.

Like I said in post number twelve of this thread, Brees is a beast. Just accept it. Give Brees his due and move on.

Of course he is subject to pressure like any other QB---including the Mannings and Bradys of the world---but I'd take my chances with Brees any day. Using his first couple of years to belittle the outstanding stats that he has today is a little shortsighted and disingenuous as many great QBs' stats suck the first 2 or 3 years.

The only thing that you can do to slow Brees down is to stop the run and put consistent pressure on him to force him into mistakes. If you can't get consistent pressure on him, then you know you're going to be in for a shootout, pure and simple. Brees is not the type of QB that is going to beat himself. Is he the best QB today? Probably not. But He is a top 5 QB in the league.

[Fireball77]

Nobody that I can see is saying he isn't a good/very good QB right now. I don't think anyone is disputing his #1 ranking in the division. Saints fans are merely arguing he should be higher ranked NFL wise than some of us feel he should be. Just because we don't think he is the best in the NFL or elite doesn't mean we aren't giving him his due IMO.

To that end, it's also shortsighted not to look at the whole picture. Didn't he lead the league in pick sixes in 2007? I can't remember the last time Brady threw a pick six (or Jake for that matter, I think it was 2005 actually). He turns the ball over more (fumbles lost and INTs) than Brady or Manning do. He pretty much always has and still does. That's one reason I can't call him "elite".

[top dawg]

I would agree that Brees is not "elite", but then again, I only see one and a half "elite" QBs in the league today (OK, maybe two), and have only seen probably one and a half

"elite", QBs during the last 30 years (OK, maybe two). [Guess who?]

That being said, I do think Brees has the possibility of being an "elite" QB after all is said and done, and I can't say that about any other QB, but four, in the league right now.

I feel ya, though. It's just that my sensors are picking up on trace levels of Hatorade.

[Fireball77]

You're also a Steelers fan. Imma say Bradshaw and Roethlisberger.

YARDS as a measure of QBs (or offenses or defenses in general) don't really impress me by themselves. Maybe it is because I watched Bledsoe too much.

[top dawg]

You're also a Steelers fan. Imma say Bradshaw and Roethlisberger.

YARDS as a measure of QBs (or offenses or defenses in general) don't really impress me by themselves. Maybe it is because I watched Bledsoe too much.

I would like to say Bradshaw. I really would. He was, and has been my favorite. But I would say that Peyton Manning and probably Tom Brady have proven themselves to be in that elite category.

As for history, I'd go with the incomparable Joe Montana, and maybe Marino.

Like I said before, I think that Brees has an opportunity to be elite, but surprisingly enough I think that Phillip Rivers might be in that conversation after all is said and done. I thought about Kurt Warner, but he's played back-up too much (which of course adversely affects his stats and the way that people see him).

It's all just opinion.

Oh yeah, and if Ben wins another three rings while keeping his QB efficiency rating high, he might be in the conversation.

[Fireball77]

I'm just teasing you!

I think the thing about TB is that he was usually at his best in Pitt's playoff games IIRC. That goes a long way towards cementing a rep usually. And rightfully so IMO.

The other thing is that a lot of people take for granted what talking heads say. Probably because they aren't loserish like me and the NFL isn't their main interest. I try not to take things as "given" just because the media says it, etc. Look at Elway and Kelly in their SBs especially and playoff games and tell me they should really truly be considered ELITE by my definition? Not really. Kelly was one of the worst playoff QBs of ALL TIME in the SB era. It wasn't just one or two bad games, it was CONSTANT. I personally wouldn't have put him in the HOF. I think the HOF is far too diluted.

Same thing goes for "having rings". In my book, that has zero to do with why one player should be in the HOF or considered better than another. It's what you do to help your team win rings or hurts them in their quest for rings that matters, not if you merely have them. I always thought that was a stupid component of any Brady/Manning debate.

As for Warner, I am a bit iffy on him as well. I think he is very good skill wise. I also think that had he been the $$$$$$$$$$ first rounder in NY he wouldn't have gotten benched for Eli. I think a lot of his issues were hand/thumb related. I look at the type of ball he threw pre gloves and the one he throws now and there is just about no comparison. He used to throw wobbly ass passes. Accurate as heck, but wobbly. Now his passes are much prettier but no less accurate. The gloves look to have helped him a bunch. Kudos to him for doing whatever it took to get better. I do think guys like Warner should get a little bit of a break for HOF since they came from nowhere and no one expected them to be any good. That's much more impressive than some first rounder having a good career, IMO.

[RazzleDazzle]

Thats lame. If Brees was a Panther he would have won a super bowl by now and you know it. But as far as I am concerned Jake can stay in Carolina for years to come.

No I don't know it, he will never be a Panther and if he was it would not mean we would win a Superbowl.

[MadHatter]

oh noes i said something wrong accidentally my credibility is ruined

No...it is all of your posts that have ruined your credibility.

[MadHatter]

I think Brees is a very good QB....one of the top in the league right now.

However, his stats are over-rated. He is in a pass happy offense....thus, his stats will be inflated.

Put him on a run first team and he will have nowhere near the same yards, completions, etc. Does not make his worse or better, just changes the stats.

This is exactly why stats cannot be used in measuring top QB's.