There are 15 winning head coaches with jobs in this league (tenured)

[rayzor]

And I can make a longer list of guys who didn't win instantly since 2006. But that really isn't the issue. Could we find someone else who would be better? We might be able to but it is not guaranteed either. We could also find someone who takes 2 years or more to prove to be a bust.

The issue is that some of you believe that Rivera can't be a good coach, isn't learning from his mistakes and will keep doing the same dumb things. So far I think he is learning but am waiting until the end of the year to see what continued adjustments he makes and whether he can get them on a roll before I pass judgement.

there is no guarantee that the next coach will be any better, but there's also no guarantee that rivera will learn everything he needs to to become a consistent winner.

i just haven't seen a whole lot of evidence that he's "getting it", at least getting it enough to make a significant difference in the W/L columns. i don't know if he's good enough to get this team and it's players over the hump enough to make us real and consistent playoff contenders.

if he continues to coach like he did this past week, then yes i think he's gotten it. if he goes back to some more of the old "protect the lead" giving the ball away to the other team at the end of the game hoping that your defense will contain and then watching that offense flat out abuse our defense with big deep passes going down the field....i'm pretty sure i don't want to see any more of that.

[j2sgam]

If Chico has learned to continue playing until the end, then maybe, yea, keep him around with a new OC. If he goes back into the BS about 'not losing' the game, which it always has, then gtfo... As long as he is learning from his mistakes, which I think he is, I think he should get another shot. I know what the man did with his defenses over the years, and I was really excited about the hire. Not so much now that we're 2yrs into his tenure...

I agree with teh 3-year rule, but we all know we havent had a winning season in 4. Sooooooo.........

I am on the fence, I want RR to succeed here, but it does not look like its going to happen, sometimes....

[frash.exe]

And I can make a longer list of guys who didn't win instantly since 2006. But that really isn't the issue. Could we find someone else who would be better? We might be able to but it is not guaranteed either. We could also find someone who takes 2 years or more to prove to be a bust.

The issue is that some of you believe that Rivera can't be a good coach, isn't learning from his mistakes and will keep doing the same dumb things. So far I think he is learning but am waiting until the end of the year to see what continued adjustments he makes and whether he can get them on a roll before I pass judgement.

p55., just about every position in this league, whether at the player's level or executive level has a low rate of success when looking at the winning metric. We could hypothetically stick with Rivera for the next 4 years with the knowledge that there's a reasonable chance he'll at least string enough wins together to reach the playoffs once. Then again, we could've stuck with Matt Moore and not drafted Cam Newton. We could've kept Hurney instead of calling for the initiative to search for a successful GM prospect with a fresh perspective.

[panthers55]

p55., just about every position in this league, whether at the player's level or executive level has a low rate of success when looking at the winning metric. We could hypothetically stick with Rivera for the next 4 years with the knowledge that there's a reasonable chance he'll at least string enough wins together to reach the playoffs once. Then again, we could've stuck with Matt Moore and not drafted Cam Newton. We could've kept Hurney instead of calling for the initiative to search for a successful GM prospect with a fresh perspective.

I don't think anyone is saying stick with Rivera for 4 more years hoping he is going to take us to the playoffs once. For me I gave him a pass last year because he really didn't have an off-season and was still installing the offense and defense 10 weeks into the season. So this is the first year he has really had a full season and off-season to do his thing. And frankly I have been damn disappointed. I don't want people to think I believe he has done a good job either. He frankly hasn't. The issue is simply is he progressing enough to believe that next year will be significantly different and that we are on the edge of building something really good here. Right now I am still undecided. Going into San Diego and beating a team that dismantled Pittsburgh last Sunday might convince me we are heading the right direction. If we lay another egg and suck, then I might be the first one to say he needs to go.

[Cyberjag]

I'm going to support the team either way, but I really don't think Rivera has what it takes to win consistently at the highest level. He's been coaching in the NFL since 1997, it's not like he needs to learn anything. At this point, shouldn't it be more about him applying what he's learned? And over the past two seasons, all the close losses and late game collapses show that he just can't seem to do it.

I get giving him a pass for last year, but he wasn't the only guy out there coaching a new team, he was just the second worst at it. And even with that, he's been inconsistent at nearly every phase of the job--getting guys fired up for a game, calling the right play at the right time, and making adjustments at the half. I'm nothing close to an expert, but I really don't see anything special about him. Not like we all saw with Fox when he started, and you would like to think we're getting better in the coaching department rather than worse.

And for what it's worth, Bill Bellichick went 5-11 his first year with the Patriots, and then lost his first two games in his second season before Bledsoe went down and he turned to Brady. Coincidentally, that's when he suddenly became a coaching genius... :)

[grateflday]

With all the talk about a coach needing time, etc I wonder how many from the examples people give did so with the same GM that hired them. The problem with Rivera is he was hired by a GM that was fired.

The organization made a mistake when they fired Fox and kept Hurney. Keeping Rivera after firing Hurney can be making the same mistake. For me they need to start fresh with a new GM and coaching staff. NOW that all being said, if the new GM has the authority to pick his coach with NO Jerry involvement or cause they dont want to pay a fired coach and a new one,,,, if he decides Rivera can turn it around then so be it. I am just so sure about that and will be extremely pissed if this team starts poorly again next year, they end up having to fire Rivera and its another wasted year.

[JawnyBlaze]

I want all 3 gone, possibly Rivera most of all.

However I'll give him credit for one thing. In the first game in Atl, he punted on 4th and 1 and that poor decision ended up leading to an L. This week, faced with the same choice (albiet much earlier in the game and in a much less critical possession) he made the right decision to go for it and it paid off. At least he learned from that mistake.

[rayzor]

I want all 3 gone, possibly Rivera most of all.

However I'll give him credit for one thing. In the first game in Atl, he punted on 4th and 1 and that poor decision ended up leading to an L. This week, faced with the same choice (albiet much earlier in the game and in a much less critical possession) he made the right decision to go for it and it paid off. At least he learned from that mistake.

that's what i feel was the biggest thing he needed to overcome.

you really can't afford anymore to depend on your defense to hold off another team's offense if the game is close. unless you are talking just a couple seconds left it doesn't even matter where on the field they are.

the rule changes have made it so much easier for a team to air it out downfield in a very short amount of time (kind of like we saw with that first game @ ATL). i don't care how well it worked in the past, you cannot afford to give the other team the ball, esp. when they have such a good passing game and your pass D has given quite up quite a bit of yardage.

i understand that rivera, being a defensive coach, feels better leaving the game in the defense's hands but you just can't do that anymore. you have to control the ball yourself if you want to win and you can't do that when you give the ball to the other team.

the thing that rivera has had to learn is that no lead is safe enough to allow the other team to have the ball at the end. it's a new era and defense doesn't control the game anymore.

[Cyberjag]

I want all 3 gone, possibly Rivera most of all.

However I'll give him credit for one thing. In the first game in Atl, he punted on 4th and 1 and that poor decision ended up leading to an L. This week, faced with the same choice (albiet much earlier in the game and in a much less critical possession) he made the right decision to go for it and it paid off. At least he learned from that mistake.

I'm not sure I believe that. Against Atlanta the first time, he was on the road with a 1-1 record, looking for the upset and believing his team would be a playoff contender. Last week he was looking at the want ads in between preparing for the game. He had nothing to lose, so why not go for it?

If we bring him back and the Panthers find themselves in a similar 4th and one situation when the games still matter, I fully expect him to punt again. And I would honestly have expected the same thing from John Fox. Those guys are just wired to let the defenses win the game for them.

If you want a coach who will consistently go for it on downs like that, hire an OC.

[rayzor]

I'm not sure I believe that. Against Atlanta the first time, he was on the road with a 1-1 record, looking for the upset and believing his team would be a playoff contender. Last week he was looking at the want ads in between preparing for the game. He had nothing to lose, so why not go for it?

If we bring him back and the Panthers find themselves in a similar 4th and one situation when the games still matter, I fully expect him to punt again. And I would honestly have expected the same thing from John Fox. Those guys are just wired to let the defenses win the game for them.

If you want a coach who will consistently go for it on downs like that, hire an OC.

agreed.