Busy day for Bears

[Darth Hater]

Between that one, and the "yea, I have a better arm than Elway".....I would have welcomed two 1st's and a QB who seems to handle adversity.

Actually he said that he felt he had a stronger arm than Elway and maybe he does. Nothing wrong with that. People voice their opinions on here everyday.

[Brandon]

Actually he said that he felt he had a stronger arm than Elway and maybe he does. Nothing wrong with that. People voice their opinions on here everyday.

Comparing yourself to a hall of fame QB your first year starting in the league is a bit off, no matter how you slice it.

[Fireball77]

^^^

Much less the legend in the town and on the team you currently were playing for. D'oh.

So, while Peyton Manning is a "proven" QB, he is not a leader because he has called out teammates.... likewise for Favre, McNabb and any other QB.

What a web...

I will never ever be on board with any QB who downtalks any teammate or team past or present in the press. A one time outburst? I could let it go if it were in the heat of the moment, but it is a habit with all those guys whose leadership "style" I do not like.

Maybe you don't remember because it not on this board rather it was on the old one, but this tendency was one of the biggest reasons I absolutely LOATHED David Carr to the depths of my being when he was in Carolina.

[Darth Hater]

Comparing yourself to a hall of fame QB your first year starting in the league is a bit off, no matter how you slice it.

Just admit that you don't like Cutler, you want him to fail, you think he's punk and that no one will convince you otherwise. Your definitely not going to convince the Bears fans here that trading for him was a mistake instead of going with Orton. We are overjoyed with the fact that our team finally has a talented top tier Qb after 20 plus years and none of your Cutler hating will make us feel any different about the situation unless he does fail. If he doesn't pan out I will be sure and come back and tell you that you were right and I was wrong, you're smart and I'm stupid, you're good looking, I'm not attractive etc.

Seriously though, Which QB would you rather have?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d810e8dde/32-in-32-Denver-Broncos

[Brandon]

Just admit that you don't like Cutler, you want him to fail, you think he's punk and that no one will convince you otherwise. Your definitely not going to convince the Bears fans here that trading for him was a mistake instead of going with Orton. We are overjoyed with the fact that our team finally has a talented top tier Qb after 20 plus years and none of your Cutler hating will make us feel any different about the situation unless he does fail. If he doesn't pan out I will be sure and come back and tell you that you were right and I was wrong, you're smart and I'm stupid, you're good looking, I'm not attractive etc.

Seriously though, Which QB would you rather have?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d810e8dde/32-in-32-Denver-Broncos

I don't want anyone to fail, but you're right, I don't like him at all. I don't hate him just because, there is no sense in that, as I've said my opinion of him is based on a long series of actions stemming back to his college years. He's a better skills QB than anyone the Bears have had in a LONG time so I know why you guys are excited but giving up what the Bears did on top of putting the future of the franchise in his hands worries me.

I'm not "hating" on Cutler, I'm calling it how I see it. Being blind about any player, ignoring all of his faults, because he is an improvement over an existing player doesn't sit well with me. I don't like it here either.

[frash.exe]

FTR I would rather have a QB that can pass the ball and good enough to lead his team to a championship and put up with the occasional media slip up than a QB who only has unfaltering leadership and not a whole lot else to hang his hat on.

we're trying to secure lombardi trophies here, we're not looking for Mother Teresa in a helmet and pads.

[Brandon]

FTR I would rather have a QB that can pass the ball and good enough to lead his team to a championship and put up with the occasional media slip up than a QB who only has unfaltering leadership and not a whole lot else to hang his hat on.

we're trying to secure lombardi trophies here, we're not looking for Mother Teresa in a helmet and pads.

I've played on bad football teams with good players and good football teams with bad players. I can assure you that skill is only a part of the puzzle necessary for a team to win games. Also the whole point about bringing up these bad run-ins with the media is that they're examples indicative of a deeper issue. If you choose not to see it then fine but it is still no less true.

[Fireball77]

FTR I would rather have a QB that can pass the ball and good enough to lead his team to a championship and put up with the occasional media slip up than a QB who only has unfaltering leadership and not a whole lot else to hang his hat on.

we're trying to secure lombardi trophies here, we're not looking for Mother Teresa in a helmet and pads.

I could be misinterpreting what you are saying and if so, I apologize, but to me it isn't that "opposite" of a scenario.

I doubt highly anyone expects Mother Theresa in the NFL (meaning some saintly don't drink/don't smoke don't swear/don't crack dirty jokes type guy). Nor would I want that either.

OTOH, trashing teammates in the press, etc. when you are in THE position of leadership is not something I can see as anything that will be conducive towards winning football games (which we both agree IS the bottom line), talent or no talent. And it's an indicator of a deeper issue, IMO which is selfishness. Look at any boss you have ever worked for. What do the good ones have in common and what do the bad ones have in common? This dichotomy is what I am driving at with my opinion.

[Darth Hater]

Cutler Is fuging good. Bears fans are happy. Broncos fans are upset. the Bears will be better with him. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[thefuzz]

Cutler Is fuging good. Bears fans are happy. Broncos fans are upset. the Bears will be better with him. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Good for you.

[frash.exe]

I could be misinterpreting what you are saying and if so, I apologize, but to me it isn't that "opposite" of a scenario.

I doubt highly anyone expects Mother Theresa in the NFL (meaning some saintly don't drink/don't smoke don't swear/don't crack dirty jokes type guy). Nor would I want that either.

OTOH, trashing teammates in the press, etc. when you are in THE position of leadership is not something I can see as anything that will be conducive towards winning football games (which we both agree IS the bottom line), talent or no talent. And it's an indicator of a deeper issue, IMO which is selfishness. Look at any boss you have ever worked for. What do the good ones have in common and what do the bad ones have in common? This dichotomy is what I am driving at with my opinion.

I thought about this for long and I did use "mother teresa" loosely. Delhomme's not said a peep about other players and in his spare time all he's doing is racing horses but in the end it doesn't make him reach any greater heights than someone who has talked like that. There have been QBs who've gotten themselves in bad situations where carelessness played a part (Ben Roethlisberger-motorcycle), QBs who've refused to play on certain teams (Eli Manning-San Diego), and QBs who've thrown players under the bus after losses (Peyton Manning) who've been bigger winners than Delhomme.

To bring up a different perspective on this, Carolina has a pretty benign press (probably among the least "pressing" of any market in the nfl)

I don't recall Delhomme being asked too many tough questions, questions they would ask him in New York or Philadelphia or San Diego or Chicago. But if he does have an exceptionally bad game, I notice something in those postgame pressers, that he's in some sort of shell that he's so distracted by how bad he played he can't even make eye contact with the people who ask him the questions. He's shaking his head, he's looking to answer a question but he can't find the right words, and most of the time it's a question you'd expect them to ask. Other QBs are more straightforward after a bad game, even in the face of a tougher question.

maybe his emotional state is part of the reason there's no prospect of a slip up when he's basically in shut down mode.

[Brandon]

I thought about this for long and I did use "mother teresa" loosely. Delhomme's not said a peep about other players and in his spare time all he's doing is racing horses but in the end it doesn't make him reach any greater heights than someone who has talked like that. There have been QBs who've gotten themselves in bad situations where carelessness played a part (Ben Roethlisberger-motorcycle), QBs who've refused to play on certain teams (Eli Manning-San Diego), and QBs who've thrown players under the bus after losses (Peyton Manning) who've been bigger winners than Delhomme.

You act as QB is the only reason teams win games. It's about the talent around them and so many other factors. Ben is a great leader, and while he did do something incredibly stupid by riding without a helmet, it wasn't his fault that the woman turned in front of him. It was an accident and other than that he's had a spotless record. The Giants defense was what got them to the SB and Eli had matured a lot since coming into the league. He's also regarded to be around as good as Jake so the comparison is a bit moot. Peyton is still a good leader even though he may not be a good team mate. Also if memory serves me correctly Jake has a better winning perception than Eli...

And speaking of Peyton and the Colts, it took them a long time to finally win a SB despite having one of the best QB's in the league, proof that this game is about much more than just having a great quarterback and a great coach. Considering Jake has only really had 4 chances (03, 05, 06, 08) to take us to a SB win I think he's done fairly well.

I don't recall Delhomme being asked too many tough questions, questions they would ask him in New York or Philadelphia or San Diego or Chicago. But if he does have an exceptionally bad game, I notice something in those postgame pressers, that he's in some sort of shell that he's so distracted by how bad he played he can't even make eye contact with the people who ask him the questions. He's shaking his head, he's looking to answer a question but he can't find the right words, and most of the time it's a question you'd expect them to ask. Other QBs are more straightforward after a bad game, even in the face of a tougher question.

maybe his emotional state is part of the reason there's no prospect of a slip up when he's basically in shut down mode.

Whenever I see Jake after a bad game he takes the blame, even if he wasn't the party at fault. Yes he's certainly quieter than normal after he has a bad game but he's an emotional guy and I feel that's understandable.

[frash.exe]

You act as QB is the only reason teams win games. It's about the talent around them and so many other factors. Ben is a great leader, and while he did do something incredibly stupid by riding without a helmet, it wasn't his fault that the woman turned in front of him.

No I haven't, mostly, people talk about Delhomme as the only reason we come away with the victor in a game when they say "He won this game for us". As a matter of fact, I've been saying the opposite this whole time, talking about Denver's lack of success as having more to do with poor defensive play and less to do with Cutler's apparent lack of leadership. People on here basically dumped all of Denver's problems on Cutler, saying he's the cancer, he's to blame this whole time and he's the one who has held the team back.

And it wasn't just riding without a helmet Ben did wrong, he was actually riding on an expired motorcycle permit, and the trauma he sustained at the scene, he could very well have died lying in the street if the paramedics hadn't given him exceptional care.

The Giants defense was what got them to the SB and Eli had matured a lot since coming into the league. He's also regarded to be around as good as Jake so the comparison is a bit moot. Peyton is still a good leader even though he may not be a good team mate. Also if memory serves me correctly Jake has a better winning perception than Eli...

What you said in bold clearly contradicts what you said earlier that QBs rely on their team and a whole bunch of other factors to win so I don't know where you're going there. Fact is QB winning percentage is a shallow stat, it's the same stat that has Rex Grossman as one of the top winning QBs as well. It's not reputably accurate when judging how good a QB is.

Anyway, Eli Manning is a better QB than Jake Delhomme, and it wasn't just because of the Giants defense and pass rushing arsenal that got them to make a superbowl run. Eli did a great job leading the offense to score points in the postseason and you give him little to no credit for that, which I can expect in this kind of discussion.

And speaking of Peyton and the Colts, it took them a long time to finally win a SB despite having one of the best QB's in the league, proof that this game is about much more than just having a great quarterback and a great coach. Considering Jake has only really had 4 chances (03, 05, 06, 08) to take us to a SB win I think he's done fairly well.

Yes, which is what I've been trying to say, again. The teams in this league that are the best off have in their possession all 4 of the critical phases that make their game. (run game, pass game, defense, STs) all four must be efficient and/or exceptional to reach the highest of heights.

Whenever I see Jake after a bad game he takes the blame, even if he wasn't the party at fault. Yes he's certainly quieter than normal after he has a bad game but he's an emotional guy and I feel that's understandable.

Yea. It's understandable when he does it. To us it's "emotion" when he spazzes out in the middle of the field after he throws a pick, when it could very well be perceived as humorously childish as well. Maybe if there is any sign of immaturity we've seen in Delhomme is when he has these games where he's figured out by the defense and throws tantrums when he makes a bad play, and loses his confidence as the game wears on because the defense got to his head.

That the Bears are most likely to be successful this year is because they now have a QB who can lead a team and who is very good in addition to a very good running game and an intimidating defense, as well as RS Devin Hester, which just could put them over the top, and now that Jay Cutler isn't on a team whose organization has basically dropped the ball as far as personnel development and coaching goes, so begins a new chapter in his career that is full of opportunity and playoff advancement. Meanwhile, the Broncos are basically in rebuilding mode at this point.

Jay Cutler is not a cancer, he is not a bad leader, he's not the most perfect teammate but he is a much more capable QB than Kyle Orton, as well as most other QBs in the NFL.

[thefuzz]

Raging Bull, are you Jay Cutler's cousin.

I don't think that anyone here isn't giving Jay props for his exceptional physical gifts. FB, Brandon, and myself just don't like the kind of player that he is.

You do, and so do Bears fans.....now, but there are a few of us out there that just don't appreciate the way he goes about being a leader and a teammate. If he matures, and starts playing well down the stretches in seasons, I will certainly change my opinion of him. But as of yet he does nothing for me, other than throw a pretty deep out.