A different way to interpret QB statistics

[Brandon]

also, not to get back on topic or anything, Big Ben is underrated by this statistic/score. 17 does not reflect how good he is, or what he means to his team, and is much better than most of the guys in front of him.

Well by all means I agree that this stat can't (nor can any really) take into account leadership or determination, or any other intangibles for that matter. Ben's stats have never been particularly pretty but he gets things done.

[Snake]

true but it is a chicken/egg scenario. You cannot effectively lead without example no matter how loud or friendly you are. So can you really rally troops if they don't believe you have what it takes or can you actually motivate the real talent by giving maximum effort no matter how effective it actually is?

The leader needs to be the QB and he needs to be intense but he cannot be all smoke either. Maybe the team feels Jake is doing just good enough to keep their faith and listen. I hope so. It will get real ugly if they don't due to another performance like the three duds last year early in the season.

How can you hate a guy that more then one time has been down by two poss and came back. Players rally around Captain comebacks and thats why everyone rallies around Jake. He never quits. With that said I dont like to see Jake take the role of Payton Manning or Brees and have to pass every down. Thats just not good business. Beason never gives up on defense and Jake never gives up on Offence and thats why they lead there unit.

[AKPantherFan]

super rep 4 u if i could!!!

awesome post...

Actually what the team saw early in the season was Jake leading a last second comeback against San Diego to win. Then he followed that us with a 4th quarterback comeback to beat Chicago so we opened up 2-0 without Smitty.

Sure he had some bad games but we won 12 of 16 in 2008 after winning only 5 of 13 games in 2007 after he went down.

The team doesn't feel he is just doing enough, they feel he is doing very well and is their leader. Since the beginning of 2007 the team has gone 14-5 with him while without him we have gone 5-8. They saw Jake come through big time all year long. So they can forgive him for the poor playoff experience.

What player has criticized him in any interview since the playoff game. I can't find one. The only guys criticizing him are fans and the media.

Don't assume your opinion is even remotely close to what the team thinks about him. They aren't saying good things because they are PC, they are saying it because they believe in him and see his effort and leadership every day in practice and on Sunday in the games. It will take more than a few bad games to change that.

[Fiz]

hmmm.... I dont know.

He already has 17,877 yds. You add 3 more years thats about 23,000 yards

you add that with a "possible" Super Bowl and a "possible" SB MVP and I wouldn't count him out.

23,000 yards! my god!

he's a shoo in for the class of 1942!

[Fireball77]

Well by all means I agree that this stat can't (nor can any really) take into account leadership or determination, or any other intangibles for that matter. Ben's stats have never been particularly pretty but he gets things done.

As far as efficiency, he's usually done fairly well though. He doesn't have mega yards, etc, but his YPA & TD% are pretty good.

And NG, FF has very little to do with real football since it's only about big individual stats (especially YARDS for QBs-ugh) with no context. I bet in FF Cutler & Brees were probably #1 & #2 FF QBs (or something like that). Anyone who would call them the two best QBs in the league though would find that tough to support IMO.

[panthers55]

As far as efficiency, he's usually done fairly well though. He doesn't have mega yards, etc, but his YPA & TD% are pretty good.

And NG, FF has very little to do with real football since it's only about big individual stats (especially YARDS for QBs-ugh) with no context. I bet in FF Cutler & Brees were probably #1 & #2 FF QBs (or something like that). Anyone who would call them the two best QBs in the league though would find that tough to support IMO.

You are right about FF. If you want a FF quarterback you look for guys in a pass happy offenses with no running game who will throw all day. Doesn't matter what their win loss record is. Guys like Roethlisburger are not good fantasy football guys because he doesn't put up big numbers he just wins superbowls.

Problem with FF is it is not about teams but individual players. That is part of my beef with it. Players and fans are all about getting their numbers as much or more than the wins and losses.

[Fireball77]

Yeah it is aptly named...FANTASY football.

I'm not knocking it's existence, I know it's brought the casual fan into the game, it's allowed the more serious fan another way to enjoy the game, it has created a new $$$ market, etc and I know people have fun doing it and that's cool. I personally hate it because it's anti-everything I love about real football. Individual sports aren't entertaining to watch to me. FF makes football an individual sport. Also, people even root for players on despised teams because of FF. When people start seriously discussing strategies, etc. they used in FF as anything that carries over to the real game, I view that the same way as people talking about how Madden carries into the real game.

[mantal]

Yeah it is aptly named...FANTASY football.

I'm not knocking it's existence, I know it's brought the casual fan into the game, it's allowed the more serious fan another way to enjoy the game, it has created a new $$$ market, etc and I know people have fun doing it and that's cool. I personally hate it because it's anti-everything I love about real football. Individual sports aren't entertaining to watch to me. FF makes football an individual sport. Also, people even root for players on despised teams because of FF. When people start seriously discussing strategies, etc. they used in FF as anything that carries over to the real game, I view that the same way as people talking about how Madden carries into the real game.

Madden isn't real?

[rayzor]

Yeah it is aptly named...FANTASY football.

I'm not knocking it's existence, I know it's brought the casual fan into the game, it's allowed the more serious fan another way to enjoy the game, it has created a new $$$ market, etc and I know people have fun doing it and that's cool. I personally hate it because it's anti-everything I love about real football. Individual sports aren't entertaining to watch to me. FF makes football an individual sport. Also, people even root for players on despised teams because of FF. When people start seriously discussing strategies, etc. they used in FF as anything that carries over to the real game, I view that the same way as people talking about how Madden carries into the real game.

coming from someone who plays in 7 or leagues a year and who does some writing for FFB....i totally see where you are coming from.

i try to keep a big separation between the game and the game, if you know what i'm saying. when i watch on sunday, i'm not watching my players i'm watching the panthers. i also have tried really hard to not let the FFB thinking conflict with my view of football as a team sport. stats are important in FFB but the ONLY thing that matters in real football is getting that ring and no team can do that on the back of just one or two players.

those teams that approach football from a stats perspective or a super star prospective usually end up like the cowboys....a star studded disappointment.

in music, you can take the most incredible musicians around from the best groups and form a super group but usually happens is that they turn into ego driven catastrophes and the bands that really stick around and do well are those who just have the right chemistry. things click in just the right way at just the right time.

i think the panthers are trying to find that chemistry and i believe that they may have found it. it all depends on jake's reaction to that last game and his elbow. if his elbow is in better shape and he has that commitment to improve his game, i think that it is only a matter of time before we get that ring. i have a strong feeling it will happen in the next two years.

[Snake]

You are right about FF. If you want a FF quarterback you look for guys in a pass happy offenses with no running game who will throw all day. Doesn't matter what their win loss record is. Guys like Roethlisburger are not good fantasy football guys because he doesn't put up big numbers he just wins superbowls.

Problem with FF is it is not about teams but individual players. That is part of my beef with it. Players and fans are all about getting their numbers as much or more than the wins and losses.

This is why I dont play FF because you lose your team support. It kinda defeats the Idea of pulling for your team.

[mantal]

This is why I dont play FF because you lose your team support. It kinda defeats the Idea of pulling for your team.

This is why I don't like the whole idea of players playing FF, but I know a lot of them do. They should ban players from playing penalized by suspensions without pay. I just don't like the possibility of players thinking about how a play might affect their FF boards while a play is in progress...

[rayzor]

This is why I don't like the whole idea of players playing FF, but I know a lot of them do. They should ban players from playing penalized by suspensions without pay. I just don't like the possibility of players thinking about how a play might affect their FF boards while a play is in progress...

if they aren't playing in a money league it shouldn't be an issue.

[ChadroChill]

This thread is retarded. You manipulated stats so that they would come out favorable to you. To prove my point, lets say that instead of 70 being the number you chose it was 60. What if you said instead of over 100 it had to be over it had to be over 115?

Drew Brees would have 6 games over 115 and 0 games under 60. WOW his rating shoots up to being +6

Jake Delhomme would have 4 game over 115 and 3 games under 60. is that -2? uh oh drew brees is better.

In the end its just stupid fans trying to manipulate stats so they can say their player is better. I think the real question is honestly would you rather have jake delhomme or drew brees as your quarterback. I know i would want drew brees even though i am a big homer and fan of delhomme.

This is dumb. You just got pwned.

[Jangler]

You just got pwned.

That's very witty, did you make that up yourself?