The Myth of Cam Newton under pressure dispelled

[jtnc]

So how do we reconcile Tony's stats with what Sloth provided? Is it maybe because NFL stats are raw numbers, while Football Outsiders analyzes each play individually?

All I know is from an eye test standpoint, I find the Football Outsiders' data much more believable.

He ACTUALLY thinks a line made of Gross, Hangartner(he's awful and that ain't no secret), Jeff Byers(center playing guard), Byron Bell(he's terrible with speed rushers,Amini Silatolu( a rookie, who gets beat constantly in pass pro) are world-beaters, lol.

[teeray]

TonyN = PFFL.

Same trolling poo as last year. His stupid little forum he tried to create and promote and no one went to left him sad and lonely.

Now that Cam is playing less than great he has come back to try and feel better about himself.

These arguments are the same as they have been and they usually don't hold up under closer scrutiny.

[KillerKat]

If you need stats in order to form your own opinion because you can't do it yourself with your own two eyes, then you are nothing more than a robotic imbecile that can't think for himself with very little knowledge of what is really going on. It isn't rocket science. Anyone that is football knowledgeable, or at least has a brain, can see with their own two eyes that Cam has very little time to set his feet and make throws most of the time. You don't need stats to tell you that.

[MaineManPanther]

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&archive=false&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT&qualified=true

These stats are sortable...

Just go to the final two columns to allow some of the complete bombast you have read on this forum to sink in...

Cam Newton has been hit 35 times this season...

Mike Vick?? 77 !!!

RG III ?? 51 !!!

Andrew Luck ?? 60 !!!

Cutler ?? 51 !!!

Rodgers ?? 48 !!!

Ryan ?? 47 !!!

Gabbert ?? 47 !!!

As a matter of fact, Cam Newton has been hit the 12th FEWEST times of any QB in the NFL this season...

Now let's hear it...

Why these numbers really don't apply to Cam...

Why Cam is "different"

Why these stats don't mean anything...

Per Pff:

The panthers offensive line has given up

15 sacks (sixth most allowed)

20 hits (seventh most allowed)

61 hurries (13th most allowed)

For a total of 96 pressures which is 13th most allowed.

Carolina has 316 pass plays, which is the 8th least.

This gives them a ratio of 76 which is the fourth worst in the Nfl. ( They do weigh sacks a little more heavily).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but objectivley the fact that you resort to only using hits and not sacks or hurries, and that you neglect to factor in the number passing plays ( two very big factors in comparing lines) suggest your being intellectually dishonest.

[Marguide]

And by the way, I have no problem criticizing Cam's play when it's warranted. It is just a bit ridiculous to try to make the point that he has a relatively clean pocket compared to his peers.

Yesterday, Cam did have a largely clean pocket for the first few series. He did have to scramble once, and was sacked once during our first possession, but it was much better than later in the game. So how did he perform early on? He completed his first 6 passes.

I want to see Cam get proper coaching and an o-line that isn't on their heels all day. If he can't get the job done with those 2 things, then yeah, let's start talking about where we are. But to do so now? It's nuts.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

If you need stats in order to form your own opinion because you can't do it yourself with your own two eyes, then you are nothing more than a robotic imbecile that can't think for himself with very little knowledge of what is really going on. It isn't rocket science. Anyone that is football knowledgeable, or at least has a brain, can see with their own two eyes that Cam has very little time to set his feet and make throws most of the time. You don't need stats to tell you that.

my eyes show me that more times than some fans are willing to admit, newton is holding onto the ball too long.

my mouth screams what my eyes show me.

my son's ears can verify the information that my eyes and mouth relay.

[TonyN]

You lack the rest of the stats that tell the story you are trying to pimp....

Carolina is tied for the 30th amount of pass attempts, only 1 team has fewer....

And you would need to combine, hits, sacks, and pressures.

You would need all that to accurately make the point you are pretending to make.

Just being concise, don't ya know...

The raw data is available, but no matter how much data is presented, the true believers won't believe.

Carolina has not attempted few enough pass attempts to seriously scew the statistics...far from it...

Why don't YOU present a case for Cam Newton being one of the most pressured QB's in the NFL??

But please, base the case on verifiable FACT and not homer fan hyperbole...

[TonyN]

Per Pff:

The panthers offensive line has given up

15 sacks (sixth most allowed)

20 hits (seventh most allowed)

61 hurries (13th most allowed)

For a total of 96 pressures which is 13th most allowed.

Carolina has 316 pass plays, which is the 8th least.

This gives them a ratio of 76 which is the fourth worst in the Nfl. ( They do weigh sacks a little more heavily).

Those numbers seem largely valid, though Newton takes more sacks than are necessary, as most young quarterbacks do.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

And by the way, I have no problem criticizing Cam's play when it's warranted. It is just a bit ridiculous to try to make the point that he has a relatively clean pocket compared to his peers.

Yesterday, Cam did have a largely clean pocket for the first few series. He did have to scramble once, and was sacked once during our first possession, but it was much better than later in the game. So how did he perform early on? He completed his first 6 passes.

I want to see Cam get proper coaching and an o-line that isn't on their heels all day. If he can't get the job done with those 2 things, then yeah, let's start talking about where we are. But to do so now? It's nuts.

just because cam completed his passes, doesn't mean he isn't holding onto the ball too long...it could mean the oline actually held up an extra second or so.

[CRA]

Just being concise, don't ya know...

The raw data is available, but no matter how much data is presented, the true believers won't believe.

Carolina has not attempted few enough pass attempts to seriously scew the statistics...far from it...

Why don't YOU present a case for Cam Newton being one of the most pressured QB's in the NFL??

But please, base the case on verifiable FACT and not homer fan hyperbole...

See Maine's post....

[Marguide]

my eyes show me that more times than some fans are willing to admit, newton is holding onto the ball too long.

my mouth screams what my eyes show me.

my son's ears can verify the information that my eyes and mouth relay.

Yes, he does without a doubt hold the ball too long. How much of that is due to slow developing routes and how much is indecision is open for debate.

I think he's become so afraid of throwing interceptions that he is becoming timid about throwing into tight windows.

One other thing I've noticed...some of the overthrows (not all, just some) are in fact him just throwing the ball away because he sees a defender come into his vision at the last second. That's not entirely unique to him. Many QB's do the same thing by throwing the ball short and into the dirt.

[ReturnOfPFFL]

TonyN = PFFL.

Same trolling poo as last year. His stupid little forum he tried to create and promote and no one went to left him sad and lonely.

Now that Cam is playing less than great he has come back to try and feel better about himself.

These arguments are the same as they have been and they usually don't hold up under closer scrutiny.

It's really quite funny how paranoid and delusional you have become Teeray. Been having a blast reading some of your posts here every now and then, even noticed someone follow me around other forums and copying my posts to put them here. It's especially funny accusing numerous new posters that disagree with you, of being me. So let me just speak up for Tony. He's not me no matter how bad you want him to be!

Ask Zod. Or any of the other mods. They have IP addresses. TonyN has his own mind and it just happens to disagree with you. Stop using your same old tricks of turning others on posters like TonyN who disagree with you.

And for the record, the forum didn't fail for any other reason other than the fact I realized I'm just not as big enough of a fan of the Panthers to support this team at times like this and have much respect for Zod for putting up with it, and especially with posters, like you!

Just not cut out for it.

But seriously, you need something else other than your typical trolling behavior to stir up your buddies and gang up on unsuspecting new members. It's sad. Haven't you noticed a lot of the good, old time, posters disappeared? Mav, TRD, etc....gone....why do you think that is? They gave up on your bullshit routine.

PS: Did you check this team's offensive efficency this year btw? 26th...and dropping. 28th net overall. What? Having a problem blaming it all on the defense this year?

[TonyN]

And by the way, I have no problem criticizing Cam's play when it's warranted. It is just a bit ridiculous to try to make the point that he has a relatively clean pocket compared to his peers.

Yesterday, Cam did have a largely clean pocket for the first few series. He did have to scramble once, and was sacked once during our first possession, but it was much better than later in the game. So how did he perform early on? He completed his first 6 passes.

I want to see Cam get proper coaching and an o-line that isn't on their heels all day. If he can't get the job done with those 2 things, then yeah, let's start talking about where we are. But to do so now? It's nuts.

It is not "NUTS" to point out how poorly your second year quarterback is playing when a reactionary fan base is screaming for everyone's head EXCEPT his...

[MaineManPanther]

Those numbers seem largely valid, though Newton takes more sacks than are necessary, as most young quarterbacks do.

I won't and can't argue, that Newton doesn't hold the ball more then most. A recent Pff article proves as much. However, the argument in this thread is the performance of the line. And the statistics show they leave much to be desired.