Williams defends Jake

[mantal]

I was upset with Jakes performance in the playoff. I was more upset with the coaching staff not doing anything about it. Not sticking to what got us there, and our opening drive for that matter.

He had a bad game, without a doubt. But he's still the leader of this team. And you don't need to look far to see it.

You don't have to like it, but it is the facts. The players, coaches, and ownership of the Panthers believe in Jake, and stand behind him.

Why did they abandon the run in the playoff game is a really good question. They marched straight down the field with huge gain after huge gain in the running game and scored. Then they quit running. I'll never figure that one out...

[monstercat]

LOL at comparing Jake Delhomme to Kurt Warner

just ridiculous

The difference 55 is that Kurt is a much smarter and skilled QB and the risk is not near as great when he does it. But I guess you don't acknowledge that either.

And yet Kurt Warner has had bad games and even bad entire seasons over his career. Hell, about 3 years ago, a lot of the same experts that are praising Warner now, were saying that he was done as a starting NFL QB.

What's really maddening is that people can see that kind of thing happen over and over, where a player goes into a slump only to come back stronger than ever, yet people like you still stubbornly take such extreme stances on these players. Believe it or not, it is possible for Jake to have a great year no matter how often you pat yourself on the back for trashing the man.

[Fireball77]

Good quarterbacks make the people around them look better. Can you say that about Jake?

“I have high hopes for (Jarrett)” Delhomme said. “If I didn’t have high hopes for him I wouldn’t be hard on him. It was the same way with DeAngelo. I kind of tried to push DeAngelo because you could see it. It was there. DeAngelo would kind of get mad at me, but I would say, ‘I’m here to make you better.’”

http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=1091

Poor man, he's so deluded. He doesn't realize that being a great leader has nothing to do with helping make your teammates better.

[carolinarolls]

And yet Kurt Warner has had bad games and even bad entire seasons over his career. Hell, about 3 years ago, a lot of the same experts that are praising Warner now, were saying that he was done as a starting NFL QB.

No question. But Kurt Warner coming from a similar background of obscurity has earned the right over the years to be rated several rungs up the ladder from Jake Delhomme at a minimum. My opinion sure, but I think it's hard to argue that too much. At the very least it's enough to create serious question marks when someone makes a comparison to him about risk, reward, and WR help.

[monstercat]

No question. But Kurt Warner coming from a similar background of obscurity has earned the right over the years to be rated several rungs up the ladder from Jake Delhomme at a minimum. My opinion sure, but I think it's hard to argue that too much. At the very least it's enough to create serious question marks when someone makes a comparison to him about risk, reward, and WR help.

Why do you have that opinion in the first place? Could it be that Kurt Warner has had a lot of great WR's to throw to over the years, and has played in wide open offenses that are very QB friendly, while Delhomme has played in a run first offense that will never allow him to put up numbers like Warner did in St. Louis and Arizona and has had one good WR for most of his Panthers career?

[carolinarolls]

Why do you have that opinion in the first place? Could it be that Kurt Warner has had a lot of great WR's to throw to over the years, and has played in wide open offenses that are very QB friendly, while Delhomme has played in a run first offense that will never allow him to put up numbers like Warner did in St. Louis and Arizona and has had one good WR for most of his Panthers career?

Do you want to see Jake in a spread offense that looks to throw first? Probably not. That is why he has been labeled a game manager for us by many who understand the game. Don't try that "blame the scheme he could be Warner" bullshit. You are smarter than that.

Why is it that receivers have not helped Jake get his numbers but are primarily responsible for Kurt getting his?

...and did you watch Kurt Warner any over his career? How about two games in Charlotte this past season?

[Fireball77]

Kurt Warner is a more accurate passer than Jake. But I do think the type of offenses he has run have helped him a bit also.

[monstercat]

Do you want to see Jake in a spread offense that looks to throw first? Probably not. That is why he has been labeled a game manager for us by many who understand the game. Don't try that "blame the scheme he could be Warner" bullshit. You are smarter than that.

Why is it that receivers have not helped Jake get his numbers but are primarily responsible for Kurt getting his?

...and did you watch Kurt Warner any over his career? How about two games in Charlotte this past season?

That's pretty damn simple...he had more than one great WR at a time, and he has thrown a hell of a lot more passes, hence the bigger numbers.

Also, I'm not saying that Warner isn't better than Delhomme. The only comparison I was making, is that Warner was left for dead a few years ago because he was playing like garbage, but came back strong. Of course, some of that had to do with injuries, but that is true for Delhomme as well.

My question to you, is why can't you give Delhomme the benefit of the doubt instead of just saying he's garbage, based on about 3 bad games?

BTW, not once have I ever seen Delhomme not even try to avoid the pass rush that he could see coming...Weinke looked like he was wearing lead cleats most of the time.

[carolinarolls]

That's pretty damn simple...he had more than one great WR at a time, and he has thrown a hell of a lot more passes, hence the bigger numbers.

Also, I'm not saying that Warner isn't better than Delhomme. The only comparison I was making, is that Warner was left for dead a few years ago because he was playing like garbage, but came back strong. Of course, some of that had to do with injuries, but that is true for Delhomme as well.

My question to you, is why can't you give Delhomme the benefit of the doubt instead of just saying he's garbage, based on about 3 bad games?

BTW, not once have I ever seen Delhomme not even try to avoid the pass rush that he could see coming...Weinke looked like he was wearing lead cleats most of the time.

My dislike of Jake Delhomme goes back much further than three games. The last three games you are referring to only punched me in the mouth after I ate crow at the beginning of last season when he was looking good- no great.

as long as we agree that kurt is a much better qb

[Udogg]

I love Jake. But his bad games are really really bad. I mean"Knockoff" featuring Jean Claude Van Damme bad. Thats why it makes it so hard to defend him. Always had the "well in the playoffs hes money" card to play. Well he shredded it up in the AZ game. That being said, sometimes you have to hit bottom to learn. Maybe that game will make him a better QB in the end. Better in my book is consistent.

[carolinarolls]

The real issue is that we have a good team. Over the last 5 or so years we have been right there talent wise. We each find different reasons for why we have not gotten over the hump though. Some think the coach is a bit stubborn and predictable. Some think that some key injuries have slowed us. Still others think that a very key piece of the pie (QB) is the main think keeping us from being elite.

In truth it's a combination of the three for me with the easiest thing to fix being the QB.

[monstercat]

My dislike of Jake Delhomme goes back much further than three games. The last three games you are referring to only punched me in the mouth after I ate crow at the beginning of last season when he was looking good- no great.

as long as we agree that kurt is a much better qb

The only times that Jake has ever played that badly in the past, was when he was hurt...just like Kurt Warner. None of us have any idea how the Tommy John surgery affected him last year either, which is why he deserves the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

Also, I wouldn't say that Warner is that much better. He is definitely good, but he makes some bone-headed throws too. That INT he threw in the redzone at the end of the first half of the Super Bowl was as bad as it gets.

[Brandon]

The real issue is that we have a good team. Over the last 5 or so years we have been right there talent wise. We each find different reasons for why we have not gotten over the hump though. Some think the coach is a bit stubborn and predictable. Some think that some key injuries have slowed us. Still others think that a very key piece of the pie (QB) is the main think keeping us from being elite.

In truth it's a combination of the three for me with the easiest thing to fix being the QB.

Well last year we showed the problems on offense were much more due to offensive line issues in the past more than anything. Jeff Davidson helped as well but he needs to get better.

Injuries have decimated our performance in the past, especially along the offensive line where our talent was already thin. Last year those injuries didn't hurt us as badly and while most of our defense was banged up they still did fairly well in spite of Trgovac's refusal to gameplan for opponents.

Despite whether or not one feels QB to be an issue, Jake has been the only real option (other than trading an entire draft for a good QB...) since 03. This is a good team and will do well next year, and any questions on Jake should be answered after a few games back.

[carolinarolls]

The only times that Jake has ever played that badly in the past, was when he was hurt...just like Kurt Warner. None of us have any idea how the Tommy John surgery affected him last year either, which is why he deserves the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

Also, I wouldn't say that Warner is that much better. He is definitely good, but he makes some bone-headed throws too. That INT he threw in the redzone at the end of the first half of the Super Bowl was as bad as it gets.

No one will be happier if the "injury" theory proves valid. Right now it's just a theory though. Yes at some point he was hurt and at some point that effected his game but to what extent...unclarifiable.

I do begrudge him a bit for keeping it silent though. Tough-gamer-whatever. That was irresponsible. Either you come out and get help or you stay in and take blame for the mistakes. I don't think he gets enough rope to have it both ways. There is something I greatly disrespect about having a built-in excuse that surfaces after the fact.

Kurt and Jake are hard to compare. I always default to the more accurate passer who throws a better ball and knows when he is beat and gets it out of bounds. I like the game that Fox plays and I think the more a quarterback fits the above characteristics the better he fits into a run-first scheme.

To answer your question I do like Jake. I wish he was not on my team though. I do not (at this time nor many others) have confidence in him or can give him the benefit of the doubt. Please trust me when I tell you that this is not based solely on the playoff game or solely on last season. I remember a Houston game, a Miami game, Cincy game and a Philly game right off where I was completely disgusted with the guy. Different years mostly away games, and all games we should have won. I really don't want to reminisce further.

I hope he pulls it together. I really do. There is nothing I can do about it otherwise right.